I think China won and will continue to win and this is a good thing lmao

the best way to achieve communism is through rampant free market capitalism

>>350958
CHINESE CENTURY

>>350959
low key kind of agree, I think things like DEI are kind of an interesting start

>>350963
DEI bothers me. this is another of my controversial takes ig
i think the fact that we need affirmative action proves we are still hateful uneducated babies
in a just world all discrimination would be legal but it would not matter
we maybe need it but i find it morally complicated

Is everyone anonymous in this thread?

>>350967
I think the problem is a lot of DEI projects are bad, and people have come to assicated DEI with BAD but there are tons of great DEI infused products. its just we dont accuse them of being woke because they are good. BG3 is woke asf but no one even dares to bring it up because it's GOOD. But the amazon show is DEI'd out the fucking ass. But it isn't bad because the main character is a woman or there are black and gay dwarves and elves. its bad because... ITS BAD.

hmm seems this board is anon only

>>350970
i will be real honest i couldn't care less about media representation, i was talking about housing/commerce/employment DEI/nondiscrimination protections

Okay so I guess I'll have to cope with being anonymous. But basically the real world operates on realpolitik and its extrememely difficult to get most people to understand that, so I don't really bother talking much about politics anymore.

>>350974
I think that media has been a tool to export progressive values to 3rd world countries which is BASED.

>>350977
interesting, probably true, agree

My Take: No political system will ever succeed, because you need power to effect change and people with dark triad traits seek power the most. Dark Triad traits people will always sell the movement out for personal gain which is why Oligarchy reforms OVER AND OVER AND OVER no matter what social, economic and politcal factors exist you ALWAYS get oligarchy in the end. So the only way to advance political systems is through technology being a moderating tool as way to decentralize power. The reason democratic societies have had the closest thing to modern progressive manifestation like true equality, anti racist, anti discrimination ideals is because the actually have a locked in mechanism of checks and balances that make it hard for one person to amass too much power. It took 300 years for use to get someone as bad as Trump again and its likely, if we dont go full Nazi, that America will see reform and restoration of Judicial and House power as a response to Unitary Executive Theory. Democracies NEED complex beaurocracies because they are unironically the best technology to function as a barrier to dark triad leadership we have every had in history. Could it be better? ABSOLUTELY, but when your competition is a million other oligarchies its easy for a turd to look shiny. China might actually, in a hundred years, produce a society with a similar level of government complexity and abstraction but it might be that the direct access to politics from the average lay person is too big a class divide and prevents this. It doesn't matter what country it is in the end though, democracy gives access to government by regular people even if its difficult which is yet another check on evil oligarchs. Marx believed that education in socialist societies would give rise to communism, but evil oligarchs kill education and are very good at proopaganda and he never saw what modern media machines can do to control thought. Communism cant manifest on its own.

Potentially the next big paradigm shift will be increased integration of computer moderation, such as if we make synthetic AGIs that can successfully run base levels of the federal beaurocracies neccessary for large complex socities and resource allocation allowing for more unified and fair democratic action. This will help us, maybe, progress to TRUE SOCIALISM. Which we still haven't achieved yet as a species.

>>350972
seems good

>>350981
i agree with this but i believe two things:
>1: dark triad people can be easily manipulated into pursuing the common good for their own gain
>2: sometimes you get a heroic antichrist dark horse who actually wants to manipulate the other fuckos for good and this can tilt the whole game at some point

>>350972
based

>>350968
yes, it's a forced anon board

i think it would be ironic if the world was made of iron

>>350983
>agree with
the first part anyway

Woah I got buried already.

>>350991
i think when you get down to brass tacks the only way to get anything done politically is manipulation anyway. carrots and sticks, incentives for and against chosen behaviors in your civil servants
manipulate the sociopaths into protecting the commons and you've won

I didn't actually know there was more than one mod.

>>350915
I don't see why progressives/leftists/liberal burgers defend democracy after Trump won twice. People will take away your rights happily.

>>351005
there are many forms of democracy
the form where
>presidential elections are fptp and filtered through primaries and donors and the EC
>congressional elections are single member FPTP
>there is no federal recall or ballot initiative or citizen constitutional amendment system
probably a bad call
this is oligarchy in waiting

>>351004
Same tbf.

also public education is a heavily undersold cornerstone of any functioning democracy
democracy only works when the average voter is better at being right than whoever would be dictator otherwise
and honestly, the average voter kinda likes the donald
because we've spent decades demolishing our own critical thinking skills for the sake of budget cuts and test scores

>>351005
They are coping.

i support the dissolution of the government under the pretense that we will all just kinda chill out and live our lives :)

>>351022
*and for protecting the oh so precious LEGACY of my fuckwit racist ancestors

>>350981
Holy crap this is still going.

>>351033
::cooking

aw

>>351034
good

>>351037
yeah maybe for the best

>>350981
It's done.

i think we should abolish currency and return to bartering

>>350981
i will never trust an unsupervised non-sentient to run my society
your proposal is something i would pick up a gun to fight against

>>351044
well the ASI may or may not be sentient

but in either case i think probably letting it set the policy would probably be bad

I kind of think socialism is more likely to happen in America than I had previously thought. As in, this century or so.

>>351046
so are you envisioning like some kind of technocratic semidemocratic bureaucracy that mostly does what the machine god says but also exists to be a check against it?
i guess that's fine as long as it doesn't go all braniac and develop ulterior goals

>>351044
i did say low level, and I didnt say we would have a choice. you can die in a war but that doesnt determine the future. I said "the next paradigm shift MIGHT be" If a paradigm shift occurs it happens wether you live to see it, die in a war against it or not.

>>351049
yes i believe sam altman (whatever one may think of him or not think of him) has proposed that several times while on the joe rogan podcast

(unfortunate that joe rogan is pretty unlistenable nowadays)

>>351050
i mentioned my willingness to pick up arms against such an outcome to say i think that would be a mass sentiment. i don't think this society is likely to exist because the people will refuse it unless it's spoonfed to them with a lot of free shit and goodies

>>351055
natural synthesis with AGI can be built over time with people barely noticing. you are imagining an overnight revolution where we give "human" tasks to AI all in one day and skynet occurs, not a gradual integrating of AGI technologies into our lives and families.

if you told a cave man in 200,000 BC that humans would live side by side with wolves he would think you are an insane person. Live with the CRAZY EVIL PREDATORY MONSTERS THAT LIVE IN THE DARK, KILL UNATTENDED CHILDREN AND BATTLE US FOR OUR MEAT?

But slowly, we integrated them into our family structures. It wasnt an overnight event, but a slow evolution.

>>351042
retvrn to paying people in whiskey

>>351059
at some point there'd have to be a transitional decision to let AIs start making policy decisions, moving military assets, etc without the involvement of a human hand
this is a massive leap that is unlikely to be able to be spread out or slowed down in the public mind, only primed
and i don't think people will like their vote suddenly not mattering and an unelected entity replacing it

This chat is still really fast and my head hurts.

now you wanna talk thousands of years sure. a few hundred even. but i don't see it happening without another preceding wave of paradigm shift first

>>351061
In the original post anon said AGI would run low level beaurocracy/democracy. thats not giving up your vote lol. and it didnt imply skynet for president at all.

>>351053
Sam Altman being for something is a reason to oppose it.

POST MORE POLITICAL HOT TAKES. SOMETHING THAT WOULD GET YOU KILLED.

>>351073
I think that Israel- (USER HAS BEEN SENT TO EL SALVADOR FOR THIS POST)

Okay. What Isreal is doing to Palestine is evil. It is a genocide. Also if they literally just annex'd Palestine in 15 years everyone would just be one people (still with problems) and average QoL of a palestinian person would be higher.

>>351067
i mean functionally that's just what we do now anyway but more efficient about the overuse of statistics (and, maybe shifting from overuse to actual effective use of statistics)

I think soon, those in charge will have the means of enacting even more unimaginably cruel and specifically targeted violence than ever before and we will see tyranny the likes our ancestors couldn't possibly imagine

The united states of america should be balkanized

>>351073
Gaddafi was kinda based

>>351078
nah, idk your country but the USA is backwards asf and most of our political system is made to function via snail mail votes delivered by horses. the most advanced thing weve implemented in politics is voting machines and that is NOT AI and also there is currently a huge conspiracy around them.

>>351080
the united states of america should undergo a civil reformation and then become the nexus of a global liberal revolution

>>351082
i am american and this is inaccurate
our outlying systems are archaic and dated
what hapoens in DC, at the GOP and RNC, in the think tanks, etc, it's all very well funded and computerized and data crunched

>>351080
Holy based. I will and fight and die for the New Atlantic States. (Virginia to Main + Penssylvania)

Leaked Hillary Clinton Emails Revealed NATO Killed Gaddafi to Stop the formation of a United States of Africa

Minnesota can become the Independent Transsexual People's Nation

>>351085
Technically the only time it happened was to protect slavery.

>>351084
how do statistics = AI??? just cause you use a computer doesnt mean its AI integrated.

Portugal is going to be a particularly useful place to flee to.

>>351088
even if lincoln was a racist if you fought for the Union you literally fought to abolish slavery and thus were BASED

The American empire is at the end of its lifespan (the #1 signifier of a dying empire is lead poisoned leaders)

>>351086
i

>>351092
Union was better than the confederates but it was the confederates who wanted to secede

>>351090
anon literally all our MLMs do right now is crunch a fuckton of data and generate weighted averages
an image generators picture of a dog is literally a statistical approximation of what photos of dogs' raw data looks like

>>351102
yea... you arent confusing MLM/LLMs as AGIs are you?

man loving mans....

I have no idea how we went this long without having an active politics thread until now.

multi level marketing....

>>351094
Lead is based actually. It tastes sweet so it must be good.

>>351103
we don't have AGIs anon

>>351105
lol

>>351108
mmmm lead acetate moment

>>351111
Which is why no paradigm shift has occurred... where you even following the discussion?

>>351117
>No paradigm shift occured save for all of Silicon Valley chasing the AGI dragon

it being all anon kind of confusing idk who im talking 2

>>351117
you're imagining a fantasy technology and simply stating it WILL be invented in time to define our next paradigm shift
i just assumed you were making a more intelligent point and parsed it that way sorry babe ;p

>>351122
My point is that we are reaching the limits of what is possible in political evolution without technology enabling more complex structures. It doesnt have to be AGI, but we are AT THE LIMIT of capitalism and we have no way to destroy capatalism. The mechanisms marx details WILL NOT WORK because he hasn't seen how powerful modern propoganda / media machines are at thought control.

landlords are literal scum and should be executed on sigt

*sight

>>351123
what makes you think we are at or even anywhere near the limit? i seriously disagree with that.
social development is borked. like you just said we don't even modernize government systems.
the people are not educated, and could be more
automation can and will go way further
we could literally achieve post scarcity communism with mostly the tech we already have just by improving our social ordering and incentive systems and the critical thought skills imparted on individuals

>>351125
HOT TAKE: THERE ARE BASED GOOD LANDLORDS.

>>351132
>owning property and leasing it to the working class
i think we have very different ideas of "good"

>>351136
its foreign equity platforms that ruin the housing market. landlords literally provide economic value (maintaining the land) something 99% of people dont know how or dont want to do.

disagree

A landlord who charges a fair price for their property with the goal of maintaining long term tenants that actually does what a landlord is supposed to do is based. Fix the property, repair damage, make sure you are comfortable with proper cooling/heating/water/sewage. Manage government interface for the taxation of property.

The problem with modern real estate is rich people. Many landlords aren't even rich people.

>>351143
that's not a landlord that's a property manager
if we taxed land at 100% market cap the landlord would have to go get a job, the property manager has one already

>>351147
my personal take to solve it is 1. rezoning cities to allow for more vertical development which allows higher population density (which a lot of cities are trying to do now) and requiring a certain amount of affordable housing (actually enforce this too) and 2. limit the amount of property anyone can have especially with huge limits on foreign ownership.

yes, one person should own one property

>>351148
1.1 agree
1.2 disagree sort of, enforcement isn't the way. just spend public money on housing for universality. build don't force others to build
2 hell no. tax land at 100% and make them pay for it, and establish roaming rights and keep squatters rights (maybe expand). there's no need for limitations except maybe like, absolutely ungodly massive landholdings like the kind only corporations and the church and the queen have. and even then, with LVT the holder would have to pay billions just to keep access

The landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for the natural produce of the earth. - Adam Smith

apartment co-operatives are the best case scenario in my eyes for high-density housing situations

Real Estate holding companies might be the most evil industry outside of biomed. everyone involved should be REDACTED and REDACTED and violently REDACTED.

>>351138
t. cucked medieval peasant

>>351163
medieval peasents literally had more fair housing practices than San Diego does its not even close lol

>>351164
they were bought and sold when land changed hands

the bullshit romanticism of medieval practices confound me, at least jill off before thinking your sword lesbian larp could happen

>>351165
and now homeless people arent even allowed to exist anywhere legally. people are arrested just for being in the public space with nowhere to go. theyve literally criminalized existing.

>>351161
the fucked thing though is that stable real estate investments are the backbone of the stock market and the pension funds especially
so to fix the land problem requires massive intervention in the markets, or deliberate market crash unlike any seen since the 30s (with a lot of stimulus to assuage)

No Proposition 13 in the year 1313

>>351169
vagrancy was illegal then too

>>351172
Yea you right.

>>351172
then they were arrested and given housing and a stable job with food :)

>>351170
I actually don't agree with this, but I do think that fixing it would create a major market crash. Taking away ONE avenue for investment can be a good thing. MORE INVESTMENT ALWAYS is kind of what created the system that made bad real estate practice such a cornerstone of modern financial institutions. If you remove it rich people will still want to be capitalist and invest in more capital so they will just invest in other things, and those things will PROBABLY be more beneficial for society to invest in.

>>351174
average british thinker

IP LAW IS TERRORISM. I SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE A WARHAMMER VIDEO GAME ANYTIME I WANT AND SELL IT FOR MONEY. WOW PRIVATE SERVERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO MONETIZE. PIRACY IS A MORAL GOOD. RICH PEOPLE ALWAYS HAVE BETTER LAWYERS SO YOU CAN NEVER EQUITABLY SERVICE IP LAW TO PROTECT INDEPENDENT ARTISTS AND INVESTORS AND THAT IP LAW DOES PROTECT THOSE PEOPLE IS A PSYOP TO KEEP DISNEY SWAT TEAMS READY TO KILL YOUR FAMILY AT A MOMENTS NOTICE FOR TORRENTING FROZEN.

i think the biggest fallacy in capitalism is that profit is the only incentive for innovation

>>351176
mostly agree, i think "more investing is good always" is true actually though, in a sense. investments in the growth of the real economy, like, seeding, that's always beneficial in the long run to have more of.
but investment in land is just a sink. it's not growing the economy it's an act of rentierism leeching off economic growth

>>351184
Warhammer IP is needed to prevent fan games where Skaven have a piss on enemy button.

>>351186
Yea, investment is a necessary input of economic growth. HOWEVER, there are other components to any growth formula or model, and investment is just one. Dropping an investment avenue will effect growth, but its not the whole picture. Real economics is actually very complicated and nuanced and it can be good to restrict one avenue of economic growth to increase quality of life for your people. A great example is how price ceilings or floors actually CAN be good for the economy, but in a vacuum econ101 will tell you its always bad because you arent able to have rational actors sell for best price.

The truth is the market is mostly irrational and decisions are made by people, irrational actors. So counterintuitively sometimes restrictions on the growth model can be overall a net positive for growth because they limit the impact of irrational/evil decision making.

A great example of this is workers rights. Workers rights like a minimum wage seem like a restriction on the economy, setting a price floor on labor. BUT, we find that often times raising the minimum wage actually benefits the economy in areas it occurs. So it can be a tool of where a simplistic baby understanding of economics tells you that a price floor is bad, but the REAL PRACTICAL EFFECT is good. The stability brought on by workers rights is literally an economic input. Stability is an important part of raising the value of investments.

>>351184
i once saw someone suggest solving IP with a harberger tax and mandatory universal licensing to anyone who can pay your royalty fee, and i really like this idea. it maintains benefit for artists/inventors, decolonizes mental activity at the same time, and it's got a natural expiration because harberger taxes increase over time until you stop paying and forfeit your claim

>>351195
this however is just a pipe dream of mine
FUCK THE BERNE CONVENTION
WORST INTERNATIONAL TREATY BY FARRR

the fact that if my country implemented harberger ip law we would instantly be kicked out of the entire international community
fucking retarded

>>351195
Holy shit this is actually insanely based I agree

>>351191
i actually personally think the minumum wage represents some level of unnecessary dead weight and should be abolished
the only reason we even HAVE minumum wage and maximum hours laws is that employers have a free card to exploit labor because we refuse to provide a functioning welfare net
if people didn't need to work to survive then they wouldn't need a minimum wage, the market would pay them what they demand

libertarianism pretty much works when you add welfarism and subtract the oligarchic corruption of the state

>subtract state corruption

good luck

>>351214
there are many ways to address the same problem. by providing UBI you are raising the value of labor. its really not that much different from a minimum wage economically, except the government is footing the bill not the companies. if you have enough income in your government, say by taxing corps correctly, that could work too.

>>351224
Yea...
\~ tired,sad, weary emoji floating in hyperreal blue sky background with white clouds

>>351229
>ubi is not different to a minumum wage economically
someone's not considering knock-on effects!
with a minimum wage as long as i remain employed i (in theory) cannot sink into destitution, sure.
but i also have to have that job
i can't easily quit for new opportunities or plans unless i am independently wealthy enough to have savings for lean times
what if i want to strike? i'm probably being intimidated about that (in fact i literally have been)
and if i can't simply quit or strike or even complain without consequences, then that drastically changes my relationship to my employer
and when every worker in the economy (or rather, all the ones without trust funds) is facing down that same dilemma, it distorts the entire labor market severely.
a minumum wage is the oligarch's band-aid to poverty
and, frankly, it's kind of a burden on small businesses
maybe i would rather have a UBI and a $2/hr job and a local shop and wow because they don't have to give me minimum wage and benefits they can afford more premium product or lower prices
there's also plenty of data on this; people on UBI tend to work nearly as much (iirc like 12% less) but spend more time on familt
i could go on and on
UBI is far superior when you consider the behavioral consequences and how those in turn affect the economy back again

>>351381
ugh errored
*spend more time on family, education, career training, etc
(for the sentence that got cut off in the middle there)

>>351381
Yea true. true. the stability brought on by stronger workers rights could be a positive driver of growth 2

I generally support UBI as well

>>350981
the more I think about this, the more sense it makes, makes so much sense, truth nuke

>>350983
could use one rn like guys guys please we could really use a heroic antichrist to save us or smth or maybe just a christlike figure or smth please...

>>350983
Ngl but these explanations are kinda naive. Like there are no good or bad political leaders, just political leaders who want to pursue their own material interest. Sometimes that includes helping general people.

want boysmell

>>355231
liberal politics spotted

>>355469
liberal politics? on my libpol.org? it's more likely than you think.

>>354906
>there are no good or bad political leader
ninja really thinks evil people dont exist and is calling other people naive

next you are going to tell me the economy is filled with rational actors

>>355846
Correct.

>>356110
It will be hard not to feel shadenfreud when Idi Amin beheads you and eats your face because he thinks its funny.

>>359492
*schadenfreude

Nuclear proliferation is good actually. MAD is the most efficient war prevention mechanism. The main reason we don't have more of it is because nuclear states want to have monopoly on nukes.

>>359517
i think this is a very common position

>>359517
well i guess it's less common if you want north korea and iran to have them too

>>359517
>cuban missile crisis
if you roll those dice enough times eventually it'll come up on snake eyes