I said socialism is a spectrum. because socialists cant just implement communism over night. marx basically defines socialism as the thing that comes before communism. as societies become MORE socialist, they do more things like public healthcare, public works, and investing in society as a whole, and they do that via wealth redistrobution. socialism isnt only this idealized version as a system. as societies become more socialist the redistribute more of their wealth to society its self for the social good.

>>488888
88888

>>488888
#check (checked)

you mispelled #oracle ()

stupid buggy site

MODS

MOOOOOOOOOOOOODS

why do you need a quote he wrote like pages on the topic of progression

#ai what did marx think about the difference between socialism and communism?

marx saw socialism as a transitional stage where the working class controlled the state and economy to dismantle capitalism’s structures. communism for him was the end goal—a stateless, classless, moneyless society where production was organized based on need, not profit. socialism was necessary to get there but communism was the final vision. he didn’t rigidly separate the terms in his own writing, but later marxists formalized the distinction more. what did marx think about the difference between socialism and communism?

thats why we say like, public healthcare is a socialist policy

its literally socialist

BECAUSE THATS NOT WHAT FUCKING SOCIALISM IS

socialism is about how society is spending and concentrating its wealth. you are defining socialism as this incredibly rigid thing that cannot happen over night. societies, in marx's theory, progress towards communism over centuries of change

>>488919
he hates socialism and leftists I dont think we have 2 worry about losing this one

MARX LITERALLY WROTE ABOUT HOW FUNDAMENTAL PUBLIC SCHOOLING WAS TO THE EVOLUTION OF A COMMUNIST SOCIETY LMAAO WHAT

like you picked THE MOST socialist thing the government can do

>>488932
its a socialist policy though, its a neccessary instrument of a socialist state. its one of the infinity stones in the magic super gauntlet that is socialisms final form

public schooling is implement by socialists, for the purpose of educating everyone, for the purpose of eroding class inequality

that was 100% not the discourse around the founding of public education lol

I dont know a lot about john adams writings so I can do some research on that but are you sure that his ideas of upward social mobility arent rooted in the kinds of ideals that gave way to later ideas about socialism and communism?

>>488960
ok have a nice night lol

true all those hispanic and brown and trans people really deserve whats coming to them!

>>488969
i think really ur just made I said people who think all socialism is bad is retards and you took that personally

ok so just say that instead of all this stuff about politics

okay , like. just insult me then and say im a bad person

why are you projecting this thing onto an entire nebulous political ideaology when your problem is that i insulted you lmao

how I am victimizing myself??? you are the one who faked a converrsation about socialism for 30 minutes but really you were just mad I hurt your feelings.

Yea, because Im going to call rightoids retards

you arent right wing but you oppose leftism

BIG THINK

I think you saying that is more productive than anything else youve said xD

angry anon, whats ur political beliefs

angry anon what are ur political beliefs

>>489014
whats wrong

oh

yea

I think it is toxicc tbh

I think you are right and I have been purity tested too but if you someone says "i dislike socialism and leftism" my general response at this point in the political discourse is just to call people a retard

its LIBPOL

xD

regulated markets?

I think regulated markets are on the way to socialism and the end goal should be communism but the problem with communism is implementing it in a way that doesnt allow it to be subverted by dark triad evil people like communicsm

communist russia*

>>489045
#ai edit replace communicsm with Communist russia

nah, we straight up refuse to fix misinformation or propaganda. nice try, tankie. edit replace communicsm with Communist russia

wtf

>>489045
#edit fix typo

oh it was the wrong command

>>489050
honestly, I agree with u 100% that that is the primary problem with implementing communism. there are too many evil people who take advantage of the system and reimplement class structure and wealth concentration. 100% like obviously the USSR was really fucking shitty to live in compared to any capitalist european country.

I think that the actual solution to implement communism is by evolving legal theory and beaurocratic techniques to the point where you make systems which are more robust against infiltration and corruption. To take an real world example of architecture, the building of a modern skyscraper is only possible with advanced engineering techniques and materials

I think people dont realize that beaurocracy is a neccessary aprt of society adn very complex and has become more robust and advanced as new technologies have been implemented. unironically I think stuff like AGI being integrated with government and moving to more fair forms of elections are possible things that will enable it. but even just writing the correct laws and investing in anti corruption measures can have a huge effect.

>>489083
I mean ... what would you call a political institution founded by a special interest group who spends all day talking to politicians and advocating for their interest group for laws that are more favorable to them?

>>489090
yea 100% agree w/ u. though I do think a lot of lobbies are fronts for direct bribery.

>>489090
yea for sure 100% and there is a difference between like the tabacco lobby which makes all these fake studies about how healthy ciggarettes are and a group of moms from mineesota asking for their trans children to be able to join sports programs

>>489095
as someone who worked in a nuclear power plant for 5 years and had to learna lot about their operation I an tell you the chernobyl plant was horribly designed lol

>>489102
I read a book about it it was crazy how bad the corruption was. the project lead for the power plant kept trying to quit and the party cronies in moscow laughed in his face.

>>489104
i think bloober is trying 2 draw a distinction from bribery and lobbies. imo though I think lobbying itself is inhrently inequitable because giant companies and industtries are far more able to create propoganda and political meddling in their favor than like some random LGBT group or smth

>>489109
i understand that

yea but the USSR was playing the great game just as much as well though. like even before the late 40s when it became US doctrine to oppose communism the USSR was actively trying to spread peoples republics through the balkans and asia

idr a part about that

my understanding is communism evolves on its own

this is why I am a radical IP abolitionist. its literally the enslavement of ideas. only rich people get to own ideas, and so we cant make eppy pens for 5 dollars and instead have to pay 500. and there is an economic incentive to never cure cancer because then you lose out on all that sweet cancer treatment money. IP laws always favor companies more than genius inventors or whatever.

remember, patent law literally killed Tesla.

I still think socialism isnt just when the workers own all the means of production. it also includes all the policies along the way to get to that point. which means organizing society according to need.

>>489130
im with bloober on this one that soviet corruption was genuinely more destabilizing to the USSR than lobbying is in the united states.

>>489135
the USSR wasnt a workers state after the 40s and stalin achieved godhood. it became an out and out oligarchy.

>>489141
NO YOU CANT MAKE ME

>>489143
yea but lobbying is still bad even if there was no bribery

also bloober to be fair to terry as well there is tons of bribery going on in the US government

I just dont know what you are trying to say. I agree lobbying is different from bribery. I agree corruption was worse in the USSR than was and IS in the united states. I also think that lobbying disproportinately positions large industries to influence government.

>>489164
well socialism includes policies that progress society TOWARDS socialism, which would include things like public healthcare and public schools.

the same way we would say the dissolution of trade barriers is a capitalist policy even though a socialist state might implement it for hte benefits

>>489172
there are some good lobbies but the majority of lobbies are corporate interests and front for bribing so the majority of lobbies are therefor corrupt

Okay I need to say something. Bloober is 100% right that my behavior was toxic and I was doubling down on my comment about knuckle dragging retards which honeslty goes against my own values in many ways and because she was on anon I was being more callous and I could have behaved way less shitty

I AM HOWEVER STILL GOING TO CALL RIGHTOIDS RETARDS TO THEIR FACE

I thought a lot about using the word retard actually >>489191 and I do see the merit in santizing that language out of usage but a part of me thinks its a useful term and slur in a lot ways too. like no one thinks of actual people with developmental disabilities when they say that, and even if they DID its kind of reasonable to discredit the ideas of people who are literally dumb.

Thats not to say that dumb people cant make good points or contribute to society or anything. i guess that is ableist? but idk. if you had like a 4th graders level of reasoning max and were just really slow and impaired thats not exactly the person society should be turning too for answers on how to organize itself.

>>489203
Yea imo this is true but I also do this

LIke calling people Autistic, BPD, assbergers etc all of that is way more applicable to actual people and more hurtful

yea thats true. but theres also the think like, you know how people call anyone who gets distracted ADHD? or anyone who is really emotionally immature or abusive narcissitic or BPD? people always do this kind of off hand calling of people these mental illnesses which works against understanding of those illnesses.

>>489215
I mean I did say that anyone who was diametrically opposed to socialism was a knuckle dragging retard

well, if u define socialism as I defined it, yeah honestly... cause like redistributing wealth towards the public welfare is very important and good for developed societies.

>>489219
also also bloober I think I am conditioned to assume that people talking that way are rightoids hiding their power level before they reveal the hitler stuff

>>489231
I think it would be a good thing if there were no evil people :3

but if there were no evil people honestly it really wouldnt matter what system of government we had at all...

Here is my VERY HOT TAKE: Government exists for the sole purposes of reducing the harm sociopaths due to society.