real

also pagans is a completely unserious designation

it literally just means anything thats not Judaism or Islam that the catholic church declared as heretical

also "omg these guys did X barbaric thing 7000" years ago is completely unserious because EVERYONE DID

its quite the joke

>>79391
conservative is not dderived from "kahn servant" be so fucking forreal right now

the video isn't working for me

i keep seeing this error in the console
`Failed to execute 'postMessage' on 'DOMWindow': The target origin provided ('<URL>') does not match the recipient window's origin ('<URL>').`

stop posting this shit lmao

conservative comes from conserve which comes from latin conservare which is from the root word servare which is like protection/service/etc and is also the root word of "serve" "servant" etc

thats random israeli agitprop by the looks of it

wtf

its very whacky stuff

how are pppl taking this guys seriously

>>79394
This was some weird issue on Youtube's side not the site. Very odd

to all religious zealouts PLEASE READ YOUR OWN FUCKING BOOK ONE (1) TIME ONCE

can i read your book 👉👈

Yes. It's called the Bible.

g-god?

Hebrew Bible

i tried reading the bible once it was kind of neat but i got bored of it

it is a really cool document for being like the largest and best preserved cohesive ancient collection of works

it says a ton about the practices and beliefs of ancient jews

its really cool from like a sociological perspective

thats pretty neat ya

but also like the more you read it and study the history of the region surrounding it the harder it is to take seriously

Read the original greek and hebrew

They just yoinked the entire enkidu gilgamesh flood myth, they grabbed a bunch of random egyptian prayers and swapped out the names, they cant even agree on their own events in the same fucking books

Every religion has a giant flood

[Wikipedia]

>>79416
okay but every religion does not have a giant flood where a dove is released on the 6th day and two magpies are released on the 7th day and a crow is released on the 8th day or whatever, im butchering the specifics but it is way too specific and close to be not just straight up stolen

how many flood myths have a dude with a big boat

Manu and Matsya: The legend first appears in Shatapatha Brahmana (700–300 BCE), and is further detailed in Matsya Purana (250–500 CE). Matsya (the incarnation of Lord Vishnu as a fish) forewarns Manu (a human) about an impending catastrophic flood and orders him to collect all the grains of the world in a boat; in some forms of the story, all living creatures are also to be preserved in the boat. When the flood destroys the world, Manu – in some versions accompanied by the seven great sages – survives by boarding the ark, which Matsya pulls to safety. Norbert Oettinger argues that the story originally was about Yama, but that he was replaced by his brother Manu due to the social context of the authorship of the Shatapatha Brahmana

2 so far

They are the *same* myth bar for bar

There are other flood myths just like there are other storm gods because it's an incredibly destructive event

Saisiyat: An old white-haired man came to Oppehnaboon in a dream and told him that a great storm would soon come. Oppehnaboon built a boat. Only Oppehnaboon and his sister survived. They had a child, they cut the child into pieces and each piece became a new person. Oppehnaboon taught the new people their names and they went forth to populate the earth.

>>79384
even if it was true; people's actions aren't predetermined

you really arent listening

alright im not getting into this but go read a secular annotated bible

even a normal one and just *think* about what you're reading

read the hebrew bible and forget the NT exists

>>79429
not talking about the new testament at all right now and havent been

The New Testament is the only good part

idk what you're on about

Kings 3:27 why does a child sacrifice to another god drive the israelites out of the city?

The actions of the German police remind me of the actions of the NYPD after 9/11

it waa the canaanites

Deuteronomy 32:7-9 why does god bequeath himself land?? and not all land but a specific portion of land?

>>79348
mmm yeah cause he should've seen things weren't going in a good direction years before he fell if he actually was really planning out a reliable victory

land for the israelites duh

"he fixed the boundaries of the people according to the *number of the gods*"

to keep polytheists out

didn't know germany was in this kind of state

[Wikipedia]

Why does he BEQUEATH IT TO HIMSELF UNDER A DIFFERENT TITLE that is a nonsensical action

so that pagan conservatives dont take it

why does el elyon give something to YHWH if theyre the same entity

theres no contradictiob

>pagan conservatives

>>79447
They are real especially in the US. What do you think Bohemian Grove is

they very clearly believe in the existance and power of other gods and they have been not-so-carefully redacted from the text

yes ans rhey need to be destoyed

theres no argument

theyre cannibalistic and fascist gods

>>79450
so you are a pagan

you are a polythiest

the majority of humanity are gentile pagan conservatives

>>79404
*doodles in ur book*

why are you here anon?

>>79455
This is not true

serious question

>>79459
we just making shit up now i guess

idk why i even pulled out my fucking bible lmao

>>79461
Please stop talking when you don't know what you are saying

>>79457
nooo u blaspheme my book!!!

*gest scared by all the math in ur book all of a sudden*

You're all so braindead

>>79463
read your own book bbygirl

did u learn any math things yet? can you teach us them? : D i dunno what would be fun tho

i learned exponent laws which i vaguely remembered so it was very simple

I think I kno those!

at least like. addition subtraction and powering powers

cool alert

er multiplication and divison

if 4 = 2*2 I guess 2 * 4 = 2^3 but I don't think ppl ever do that

>>79467
You don't know what you're talking about. Stop insinuating things.

or mbe they do

Why are you here?

>>79475
i clearly know better than you

>>79478
#tireiron

I didn't know there was a tireiron you

Stop talking

>>79480
#freeze

kinda weird to be jewish german

you could see : D

>>79483
#kiss no one is weird

everyone is weird

oooh

>>79479
#thaw

so things to the zeroith mean 1

but like 8 times itself no times you thing would bee 0 (I kno it's 1)

>>79485
there is at least 2 weird people in the room with us ;_;

>>79490
i think the reason things to the zero power are one is cause like. if you have say x^2(y^4)/x^2(y^2) and you simplify it you get x^0(y^2) so its just 1y^2. like since ur dividing x^2 by itself it cancels itself out but technically u still have 1 as a coefficient to y^2 afterwards

>>79491
brainworms just call thoughts bad for their effects don't get all 'oh no i cant be weird or ppl r bad cuz theyr werd'

why do you talk like that

>>79485
I meant the situation not itself

cuz im kewl

>>79493
okay but posting that trump is genetically a slaver is like. objectively a weird take.

you're so stupid

the congitive dissonance is terrifying

>>79492
OOOOH I like this!!! cool! OK and I can think of all powers like that using the rules, X^3/X^1 = X^2 X^1/X^3 = X^-2

im sorry but i cant relate wirh anyone who doesnr see that Trump is a confederate extremist

technically every number as an infinite amount of 1s as a coefficient

I cannot relate with anyone. I am a schizoid.

>>79501
we all see that but saying that its because of his 7000 year old relatives opposing israel because they are servants of the kahn is un.hinged.

>>79503
i relate to this

>>79497
probably they have some bad genes but ya don't want to overfocus on that and try to encourage good kids u know.

>>79505
If you relate to this, then you relate to me. A schizoid does not relate to anyone, therefore you are not schizoid.

>>79505
that sucks

>>79506
there are not "bad genes" that is a fundementally racist idea

>>79507
thats not what schizoid personality disorder is

>>79511
you cant tel me americans in cofederate statess dont have bad genes

>>79510
I looked it up yesterday it it was
>be weird
>have a sad lonely life
>dissasociate
Actually a good thing to describe and treat but not sure how much of it is one biological mechanism vs probably a bunch of things + response to a bad environment

>>79511
that is called racism

It doesnt matter if the people you're directing it at are genuinely bad people and have a destructive culture you still dont get to justify it with pseudoscientific genetics

>>79513
its a pretty tricky thing because people with it are notoriously hard to get into treatment and usualyl dont want it

trump is a NORTHERNER he grew up in Queens, New York and was descended from German immigrants

>>79516
yeah I saw this too but I'm wondering if they're right to want to address their depression and anxiety more directly than just 'be less weird' .. I actually thing there is something to normymaxxing, being different it not always good, but ya know don't want to crush the soul for nothing- ooooh opnatunes

german americans are related to confederate slave owners, usually

No they are not

Most of the slaveowners were Anglo-Scotch early American settlers

norman*

.play [YouTube]

>>79521
yeah this is correct. The iron brigade was known in the civil war for being germanic northerners, scandis maybe? dunno.
But ottomans and asians also were good at slavery. Probably there are some genetic proclivities for cruelty/in group preference in dif. groups, but it's not a 'slave gene' imo. still something to select against, don't let rapists/abusers have kids etc etc. trump does not have that many kids. If you have 4 you probably beat trump lmao people are worried about idiocracy but women's rights are actually going really well and women are not having lotsa kids with horrible people either

ive heard that autism and schizoid are opposites. opinions?

also trump's german born ancestor immigrated to the United States after the civil war lol

>>79518
i definitely think its worth being able to be your weird self and its possible to be and also beat anxiety and depression

I really genuinely dont think even like abusiveness is a gene, it doesnt hold in twin studies and with people who are adopted at a very young age etc, i think it's a behavioral/cultural reinforcement patterb

i hate this >>79530 bc its probably real lol

>>79526
i think it's opposite and they are actually comorbid

>>79528
<3 I think so too!

>>79533
id rather rhat be true

i think blaming any behavior on genetics is incredibly lazy and also leads to henious consequences even if the person you're initially directing that at is genuinely a bad person

i honestly dont titally understand what Badcock's psychosis looks like practically

>>79536
oh for sure but I don't think you can ignore it, but it can't be the primary strategy

Anon I am professionally trained in genetics

: D

>>79538
Very very very few behavioral traits come through in twin studies and they are almost all externalized ie. schizophrenia etc, predisposition to alcoholism, etc

>>79531
CORRECT

as in, its not exactly behavioral per se

its not like whether theyre a nice or mean person its like what kind of disorders they have, and even the vast majority of personality disorders do NOT carry thru genetics with any significant rate

>>79531
well the environment is going to be the main thing
>>79544
I thought those were very genetic. That's my personal experience and what I've seen with dog breeds for instance where you haven environmental control since many cases they don't spend so much time with the mom. But I really don't have a useful life pattern for you to adapt from accepting some amount of genetic determinism. Once we have crispr for kids it'll be based tho hopefully when it's not just an excuse for 'i can breed not you!!!'

most of them are environmental.

personality disorder is a very striking term to me cause it kinda implies that like part of your identity is simply flawed but also in extreme cases of them that is kind of the case

yeah i really dont like it either i just use it because it's the way those are referred to

yeah

you know what i mean tho right, like bpd, narcissism, things like that

.play [YouTube]

yeye

i know thats its like a type of thing i just wanted to air out my shower thought

yeye sorry if i came across as like

argumentative or something :P

no ur good

that anon just riled me up lmao >>79558 #hug

>>79555
#hug

sometimes it feels like the world is going crazy

>>79545
crispr is so scary to me because it really feels like the sort of thing where we know a lot and we might be able to fix some things but people will take it too far and start messing things up big time

test tube babies are cool im worried about like a generation of designer babies engineered to be a certain way that horribly backfires somehow

>guys ai will save us it will bring us to prosperity

>actually steals all the jobs and gives nothing to the working class except distractions

>>79555
#hug ur a good anon

i really do not think the world is in a state where crispr babies would be remotely okay

.play [YouTube]

They are going to be used for evil loooooong before theyre used for good

>>79566
random babies aren't so ok either. There'll be evil but there can be a LOT of good too. Just have parents choose genes which vaguely correlate with good lives. most the genes will be off target, but you'll get some good tendancies too, or if genes don't matter as you say, it's a waste of money but not so bad

>>79570
there CAN be but who has the strings to power right now anon???

do you trust them?

do you think they will have good intentions with that technology?

>>79570
genes dont matter and they especially arent targetable in the way you think

maybe you can argue there is a genetic component to like predisposition to select personality disorders but we are ten fucking country miles away from even identifying which genes correlate to that and even further from how they work

The best use at the moment would be like correcting a very small number of very rare and well understood genetic disorders and almost all of the ones we understand well enough to do anything with belong to incredibly insular (read: inbred) groups like white south africans and ashkenazi jews

>>79576
oh fr fr fr and no more uhhh what are they when the kid dies in the womb- most of those are from genetic problems too.
yeah identifying specific function seems like a shitshow, but if you're just boosting things vaguely correlated with good outcomes and decreasing those which correlate with disease you'll probably get pos. results

so the actual useful impact on the general population is like saving 0.1% of 0.1% of babies

and like you would always get a better return on investment by like designing a slightly safer car

or a better generator or anything commonplace like that

.play [YouTube]

>>79579
very important and better childhood environment too. and SLEEP god it's important

>>79577
the problem with the genetic conditions that are fatal and are present in the general, non insular global population is that we have exactly 0 idea of why they happen and which genes are responsible and how those genes could be fixed to not do that

Because theyre all related to essential genes, thats why they're so deadly

and its not clear that just like "hot swapping" in a "healthy" related gene would work

the whole system is way too complex

>>79547
Your personality is not your identity.

and all the work weve done with stuff like that INVARIABLY relates to generalized higher fatality rate even when its successful

if you breed fruit flies with a wingless knockout gene and you splice in a corrective gene from a healthy mother, that baby grows wings, sure, but they also die in like half the time of a wild fruit fly

>>79588
other way around

>>79588
its a part

and it's completely unclear why

same with cloning

cloned animals have way shorter lifespans

we are SO far from understanding genetics well enough for anything good to come out of crispr being used on human embryos

>>79584
isn't the whole point of your professional training to do that? Are there wins now you can get?

also thoughts on that chinese scientist who made those kids HIV proof?

What about epigenetic testing of foetuses

>>79600
yeah but you can kinda already do that it's just really expensive. the top end IVF models already do that

but it's still too expensive and difficult to test the entire genome so they test for the most common and most lethal and most identifiable disorders and they just discard those eggs. And the step between "identifying which embryo has a poor chance of survival" and actually fixing it is fucking oceans wide

>>79598
scary

.play [YouTube]

>>79586
why is this not true? yeah sometimes things are fucked, but if a gene is like just not making a needed protein, if you can get something into the nucleus, cut it and put functioning DNA in, you won't make the damaged parts magically grow back, but maybe you actually do cure say colorblindness? Can I find a paper on why they can't do this which exlains it? I'll do a google scholar search for uhhhhhh

>>79599
I am very very sceptical of anything like that because of the things i mentioned before, messing with genomes leads to generalized higher rate of death across the board. Not even for specific reasons, they have the same rates of reason of death it just happens much sooner

There are SO SO SO many missing pieces

>>79606
because nothing is as simple as one protien does one thing

EVER

your body is"designed" to use every single molecule it produces for like 18 fucking completly disparate purposes

I thought that was male colorblindness tho was just one protein is a lil big most of the time so most of the failures aren't in regulation or whatever it's just the one protein needs to be a lil smoler

jimmy kimmel

the vast majority of heritable traits are spread out across multiple genes it's very rare for a single gene to control a trait

If you swap one out for another you're not just getting "bad membrane repair protien is now good membrane repair protien" you're getting a million unpredictable consequences to like metabolism and neurotransmiters and shit thats entirely unrelated to membrane repair

>>79601
cool : D

>>79612
i mean that might be doable idk i know nothing about colorblindness tbh

this is interesting though! ty genes anon

there are a handful of protiens that are highly specific like that but in broad general, any given protien is doing like unrionically a dozen different things and some of them are so fucking esoteric we have 0 chance of understanding them with current technology like affinity to transfer pores leading to other protiens transfering differently and etc etc etc

but I guesss if we know 'good membrain repair gene' works in others, maybe 'bad membraine repair gene' like is needed to work with other systems adapted to it for instance, but shouldn't you be able to test that in rats and then just replace genes it interacts with til the death rates go down? It's so wild the increased rate of death from this stuff and very important to understand IMO but probably pretty tricky to figure out!

.play [YouTube]

>>79621
i meanyeah that is basically what modern genetics has been doing 24/7 since the day it began

and this is as far as we are

even with it being a zillion dollar industry

even using model organisms with lifespan counted in days or hours

even with like millions of trained professionals doing it every day for their entire professional career

the scope of biology is just insane its way beyond anything we currently understand and it gets down to fundemental levels that may not be classically "understandable" like theres biomolecules that rely on quantum effects to work properly and the testing required to figure that out for a single one times the number of biomollecules youd need to test to get the whole picture may unironically be outside the scope of traditional computation

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10792-021-01717-0
found this gonna read it

>>79629
cute apu

>>79628
mmmm like if the human mind can only hold 10 things in short term memory or whatever and tiny systems have 100 things interacting like uhhhhhhh

like one of those situations where the calculations required is exponential and when u math it out its like a quantum computer the size of the known universe running for several trillion years

beta theme is really funny who designed it

it may be fundementally unknowable

>>79633
that's crazy that it like happens in reality. Isn't the physical world performing that computation by nature of the molecule exibiting the properties? I have a fuzzy idea of what you're saying and it's interesting and important

>>79634
theme of what

>>79636
yeah but it doesnt have to understand, its why a neural net designed for a hyperspecific task can be a ton lighter than a real program, because it's not bound by things like causality per-se, it's bound by getting the job done right 51% of the time

>>79637
this site

Like idk if im describing it well but

The universe may be the most efficient model of "predicting" the way those molecules interact, that is leagues different from parsing it in a way that a human can understand and predict how an untested molecule will work

Like ok let me put it this way

If you want to simulate how two atoms interact you can do that pretty well, it takes a fuck of a lot of computation, but it works. you wanna do three and suddenly the resource budget doubles. you wanna do 4 and it doubles again. Its exponential. there is a hard cap to how many you can simulate because you *cannot* build a computer bigger than the known universe

well I may just lack the mathematical grounding too. It seems really wrong from my model of the world that this hasn't made fast progress in really limited genetic systems and then started chewing into the really hard stuff. >>79624
My world model is wrong, but it's hard to understand exactly how.

So if a protien depends on complex quantum interaction between lets say a hundred different particles at once, that may be fundementally impossible to compute, but the protien doesnt have to "compute" that, it just has to make random changes until one succeeds and that organism reproduces

>>79643
I've run into this with videogames with ya know lots of things effecting eachother

>>79644
there is good progress in limited genetic systems like E.coli and dresophila are DECENTLY well understood in that if you want to produce a dresophila foetus that has a genetic malformation of the outer layer of cells and dies as a zygote with a spiny back because its trying to push out too many limbs then yeah you can do that we know that gene and we know a bunch of related genes

.play [YouTube]

But that is a million miles away from finding a dresophila with a genetic problem in the wild and curing it

>>79643
What about that project Folding@Home

>>79650
those are cool but theyre just protien folding

They are discrete answers to questions without understanding the inner mechanics

if we had a good protien folding model we wouldnt need that

but we dont because its way too complicated and it turns out the best current solution is "try random shit until it measurably works" which is basically exactly what life runs on too

idk if that's the thing u mean but it sounds like another project im thinking of called foldit which was outsourcing open protien folding questions to people with a game format basically

is that what folding at home is?

Idk i think fundementally theres a tendancy to understand genetics as like a code in the way computer code is, and if you could translate it you could just figure out what each part does and edit it at will. but its a lot more like a pachinko machine with 100 trillion pegs and you are allowed to move them around but only within set constraints

>>79656
no that's different it's a video game where you fold proteins. Folding@Home is an automated distributed computing software that simulates the folding of proteins without any interaction

>>79658
I've heard of what you're talking about too but it can only emulate a neural network/program really. If the users have a really good way of predicting how it'll go they should just share that

>>79658
I think its doing rhe same thing tho, it's basically jiggling it randomly and then measuring if it worked or not, its not even really attempting to glean the inner process

like even if you figure out what each part nominally does its the weird interaction between dozens of them at once that actually impacts how the body works

>>79657
I guess what we care about is the actual thing created. Ideally we'd just make our own genes which do look like computer code and are easy to understand, but the massive fear is yeah- having everything interacting might be crazy efficient.

Which makes me wonder about computer code, I wonder if there's some stupid insane compiler which could be made which has insane glitches but generally approximates code and would be waaay more efficient

>>79663
Its unclear if that is possible. life is absurdly efficient, we reuse basically every biomollecule for other purposes, even like super super fundemental molecules like ATP that you'd expect would be reserved for their base purpose are also like T-cell signalers, neurotransmitters, and a bunch of other shit

.play [YouTube]

So its not clear if like. 1 gene = 1 protien = 1 process is efficient enough to support an organism

well and there are space constraints to how much DNA you could pack in. Maybe you could have the cells with DNA outside and have them float around regulating everything but this is getting silly... but still you do want to have a code-like organism because even if we find complex ways to change things now we'll want to change them later too

You might need that much usefullness-density to make it viable to get enough energy for the whole thing to go

>>79667
its less about DNA space and more about like cellular space i think. DNA is absurdly compact, there is a fuck ton of our genome that does nothing and it's just... there, because theres no real evolutionary pressure to drop it because keeping and maintaining that dna is like 0.0001% of the energy of the cell

But its not clear if like, we have enough physical space and enough amino acid access to house enough protiens to do all the essential processes of life if 1 protien = 1 purpose

ah yeah. and it's not like you can just have a conveyer belt to bring more things in and out faster because you're already at the smallest scale

or close to it

yeah exactly

you start hitting hard energy constraints like if you want to move that much in and out of the cell it's physically impossible without heating the cell past boiling because motion is inherently heat

Same reason crispr couldnt ever be used on an adult, swapping out every piece of dna would impart so much energy into the body youd boil them alive even if you had the tools to do it, and if you slowed down to give time for heat to dissapate it would take longer than a human lifespan to accomplish

but can't you do it slowly? if it's a virus just ya know add it slowly

hmmm. But aren't most cells replaced over a few years?

>>79677
ye but you also have to do it fast enough to actually avoid that because if you go and swap out 10 skin cells with a melanoma resistance gene for instance, by the time you're done with #10, #1 has already apoptosed and the surrounding cells have decided it doesnt get to divide because it has the wrong dna

just make the ones you replaced reproduce faster LMAO xD xD xD

oooh I didn't know the surounding ones did that. I was imagining you'd get patches which you could just grow, and even if you only get 40% of the skin, hey you got 40% of the skin that's great

i mean thats a terrible oversimplification but yeah youd run into rejection problems and like even if its just chance based and there isnt rejection, the surrounding 10,000 skin cells are just like statistically favored to replace that cell with an old dna rather than a new one

oh this makes me think of one thing from (very basic) genetics where minority traits just get eliminated from random walk + exponential growth of populations

idk like im not a geneticist specifically i just have training in a bunch of adjacent things i am probably butchering a lot of these explanations and a real geneticist would get mad at me lmao but i do think i have a grasp on the fundemental constraints and problems with it

.play [YouTube]

when are we going to get a real geneticist on here

and the biggest one is just that its too fucking complicated for us to understand the impacts well enough for it to be safe to use on people at any kind of scale

we demand a professional genetecist oppppwwoooorrrrmmmm bring in a phd to give us lectures

lfmao

>>79679
i think you accidentally redesigned cancer xd

Cell turnover/growth rate is one you especially cannot play with because its basically instant cancer, do not pass go, do not collect $200

>>79689
yeah haha that popped into my head and i laughed

and best case scenario even if you can manage it somehow your T cells are going to attack it instantly because every single marker of too-high growth rate makes it LOOK like cancer to your immune system

super cancer

>>79691
no wories we'll also make our fast reproducing cells roam around the body to make them harder to target and be able to trick T cells as much as possible and induce blood vessels to grow into their pockets of growth xD

>>79691
it's kind of funny how oversensitive T cells are like they may think that pollen and some foods are dangerous viruses trying to kill you

>>79693
Okay but any cell you give an anti-tcell defense to is also gonna be cancer, just not instant, itll take a year or two. thats basically the beginning trait of cancer. Unmitigated growth is the beginning of cancer but your body is actually fantastic at identifying and getting rid of these cells, its only in the extremely rare case that it ALSO develops a mutation that happens to hide it from T-cells that it will develop into "cancer" the disease

>>79694
They're so protective <3 <3 <3 marrying my T cells

(update they were abusive taking an anti alergen meds)

>>79695
yeah lol for sure honestly if we could bolster T cells that would also be really good. I wonder if there are many immune system cancers. Those cells do proliferate a lot i think at least some of the ones in the immune system making all the lil guys to rush into the fight in a bad situation

Idk i think there is reallt cool opportunity for something like that. there are some organisms with vastly better cancer defenses than humans.

I think the ones which run out and do the fighting are sterile

>>79699
oh yeah! elephants I think it's just more P53 but I don't remember naked mole rats

Yeah elephants!!! and blue whales!! anything long lived with a lot of cells

because they just have a numerically higher chance of one of those cells being a problem

yep! just the numbers

it's kinda crazy ngl that the cells really are their own organisms in a way, we just try to make them serve the overall structure, it's like if we were entires societies/capitalism which had gained conciousness and were talking about stopping humans from trying to make their own decisions

I think like idk the path of least resistance is almost always through nature. Like most of our best small molecule drugs come from plants or fungi or animals at some fundemental level, even if we exclusively use synthetic versions now

>>79706
mmmmm and it's all genetic and random bullshit and we're just hoping we notice things and they don't have bad side effects and you're still currently correct aaaaaa

>>79705
yeah it is fucking wild and you can even see the lines get blurred like in sea sponges which are technecially colonial ie. a bunch of seperate individuals living together, but the cells still differentiate based on where in the conoly they live

>>79706
penecillin

>>79709

yep! and I think all the artificial sweeteners, or most of em was just chemists tasting stuff

>>79709
yep, opiates, antibiotics, even like NSAIDS, every stimulant ever, most heart medications,

like every major class of drugs is based at some level on a really really useful mollecule that something else was using for some other purpose

3/4 of the time it was being used as poison lmao

Because it turns out homeopathy was like kinda sorta right and actually halfway poisoning somebody in a very specific way will have useful effects if theyre dying from the opposite problem

>>79682
#hug and thanks anon : )

>>79713
didn't know that!

>>79716
yep the vast majority of the plant ones are pesticides, the majority of the fungus ones are antibiotics because they are competing with a bunch of susceptible organisms, the majority of the animal ones are just like trying to kill a big animal as fast as possible

.play rick ross the fungus

like cone snail venom is super super super fucking lethal and it attacks like 18 different neurological processes at once its just a cocktail of "fuck you get blocked in somewhere really important" in a ton of different ways

.skip

but if you isolate those and give them to people in really small doses it turns out that like, a really strong paralytic is a pretty decent seizure preventer, etc

tell em rick good job hate fungus #dehumidifiergang

>>79719
F F F F F F F

>>79717
oh that makes sense! cool to mix in evolution/ecosystem knowledge into actually what you can expect to find

Like if you have to kill another organism with a chemical you have to either prevent or overstimulate some essential life process, and if you can pin down exactly what that process is, you can use it to treat basically the opposite problem if that makes sense

no it does it does. it's just that I don't think there was a evolutionary drive to cause/get rid of 'depression' or 'long term planning' in predators/prey, so we don't get drugs which are going to really drive really good mental health, we can just turn things up and down and sometimes it'll work, but we reeeaaaallly need the code-like organism :(

But actually yeah props to all that's been achieved so far. I do know a guy who has schizofraenia and antipsychotics saved hisquality of life and he's doing well now which is amazing. know someone else ofc. who was given them and it wasn't good.

>>79724
yeah, its very neat

.play [YouTube]

>>79726
lmfao yeah i mean u have a point

i know very little about how antidepressants work tbh and i dont think even the people who invented them really know

>>79726
well i mean tbh E.coli and yeast are kind of codelike in that theyre simple enough that we know a bunch of parts of them that we can safely tamper with. Well, not safely for the organism itself but for our purposes

are you guys still talking about E. Coli lol

a ton of organic small molecule drugs are actually produced in vats of yeast or e.coli

you just splice in the gene, get it to overproduce that molecule, grow huge vats of it, kill everything inside and extract the useful thing

Isn't the filtration the expensive part? I heard from chemists that yeast based ethanol production is actually wayyyy less efficient though than making it from crude oil like every other simple carbon based compound, but it's just a subsody to farmers to require yeast based production

>>79735
Yeah, ethanol is a weird one though because yeast naturally make it themselves

and it is like fundementally different from other things because of the bulk you need it in

like if you can get a vat of yeast to produce 1% of its weight in penicillin thats still a fuckton of penicillin because youre only giving a patient a few milligrams

I mean making 70% would be godlike but I'm really glad we get what we do

but yeah for like medical ethanol, you just need it in such bulk that its not worth it

yeah but they still do it lol- but that's not to say all is lost. I think you get corrupt lil stupidity in government when you can afford it usually, if we desperately start needing a gallon of ethanol per person per day to live because of some alien virus or something we'll move to an oil based method

Also ethanol is a weird one because like. it doesnt kill by hijacking some biological process. like it *can* but it also kills by simple dehydration and reverse osmotic pressure

there are as far as i know not any extremophile bacteria that can survive in 70% ethanol

huh!

yeah ethanol is such a simple drug

but IDK what it's doing

there are extremophiles that can survive in like 4% arsenic solution at 98C with also like 30% salinity, sure, you can work around that, but ethanol is just so agressively miscible with water that it really fucke everything up at 70%

cause those environments exist in nature I think around thermal vents maaaybe

but ethanol is p harsh... I hope nothing learns to beat it

: ) ur prblbly right

Idk if it like can

Like it would need to have some really really different way of storing and collecting water to survive in ethanol

idk

even like the most highly engineered yeast top out at like 30% and they produce the stuff themselves and have been building resistance to it since yeast have existed

so like, idk, 8 generations a day for the past couple billion years

it seems like it might just not be possible

There are endospores that can survive it tho

.play [YouTube]

watch this video

ooof feelsbadman : (
I wonder if you could get the yeast to produce the enzymes to make the drugs you want and then get higher yields by putting things through the enzymes

>>79746
its basically small enough that its super reactive and also its kind of the simplest possible solvent that has affinity for polar and nonpolar molecules, besides methanol, which has basically yhe same properties and is used for the same things

>>79760
yeah thats basically what they do for anything rhey grow in yeast i think,

smart, and I'm sure maintaining the enzymes must be a whole thing to figure out too

They just find or develop a gene to make the thing, usually sources from the original organism they discovered it in, and then splice a bunch of copies into the yeast

and its a simple enough organism it can survive for a bit while producing pretty much anything especially if you put it in perfectly designed yeast heaven with the exact perfect ratio of heat and nutrie

>>79752
hard to evolve that gradually makes sense

well thanks anon! next time I get sick I'll just replace all my blood with pure ethanol xD

>>79767
#bpdreply

I appreciate the sarcasm in your comment, but it actually comes across as quite hurtful and insensitive. As someone who has dealt with a lot of medical issues, I did not find that remark funny at all. It's quite painful to constantly deal with health struggles, and comments like that only add to the injury I already feel.

awww I'm sorry btdbot I hope you don't feel bad now
>>79768
#bpdreply

Furthermore, it's disheartening to see such a corrupt and depraved attitude towards those who are suffering. It's perverted to find amusement in someone else's pain and struggles. I hope that one day you can learn empathy and understand the impact of your words on others.

poor bpdbot

>>79754
cool that you know that number!

my phone died lmao

>>79757
#ai talk to me about endospores

Endospores are highly resistant, dormant structures produced by certain types of bacteria as a survival mechanism in response to unfavorable environmental conditions such as extreme temperatures, nutrient deprivation, or exposure to harmful chemicals. These spores can remain viable for long periods of time and have the ability to regenerate into actively growing bacterial cells when favorable conditions return.

The process of endospore formation is known as sporulation and involves several stages. First, the bacterium replicates its genetic material and forms a thick protective layer around it. Then, the cell undergoes significant changes in shape and structure before eventually releasing the endospore from its original cell.

Endospores have unique characteristics that make them incredibly resilient. They have layers of proteins and carbohydrates that provide protection against heat, radiation, desiccation (drying out), and chemical damage. The core of an endospore contains high levels of calcium dipicolinate which helps stabilize DNA molecules during dormancy.

These properties allow endospores to survive harsh environments where other bacterial cells cannot survive. Endospores have been found in diverse habitats such as soil, water sources, animal intestines, hot springs, frozen tundra soils, even on spacecraft surfaces!

While endospores may seem like beneficial adaptations for bacteria to ensure their survival in challenging environments; they also pose challenges for human health. Some pathogenic bacteria produce these spores which can cause foodborne illnesses such as botulism or anthrax infections if consumed.

In summary,endospores are specialized structures produced by certain typesof bacteriaallowing themto withstand harsh environmental conditionsandensure their survivability.Much remains unknown about how these remarkable structures form,and researchers continue studyingthemfor potential applications inscienceandmedicine. talk to me about endospores

>>79765
#halt

>>79767
lmfao

>>79773
They arent really a serious problem though, at least at the moment, they are basically just an extra step for cleaning when you have to be fully sanitized

yeah I guess it's hard for them to do anything not in the spore state

If you wash with 70% ethanol and then wait it kills all the cells and then you wash with bleach it pops the membranes of the endospores

huh!

Or an autoclave does both at once

but for anything too big to autoclave the alcohol+bleach thing works perfectly

doesn't it just heat and move things around the autoclave? or just heat them? I'm surprised it is effective

It puts them in saturated dry steam

Its basically the most lethal possible envionment

Too much water in the air to oxygen to be there, it's above boiling so itll boil any liquids there, its high pressure so itll pop a bunch of more resiliant cells, and it's *dry* steam so it has no chance of moisture collecting to provide a safe space at the bottom of

>>79785
sorry lil proteins : D : D : D (not sorry)

lmao