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samwich
>>195847↪
yeas.. if the brainworm.rodeo archives were available i might be able to find where i first posted it
>>195849
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
cyclop gle is like one of my favorite glegs ever and i used to post it a lot everywhere
fujo
there was also another thread on tttt today which made me rlly sad with a gle pic..
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
::cyclop (no image found)
nonners
i hate sleeping
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
#ksay hi nonners
fujo
i need this in my life
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
even 8ball wants a glegle fumo
anon
#smartai explain why mtf orchiectomy surgeries are extremely woke

The notion that MTF (male-to-female) orchiectomy surgeries are "extremely woke" stems from a misunderstanding of both medical science and the sociopolitical dynamics surrounding gender-affirming care. Let’s clarify this with precision.

### **1. Medical Justification, Not Ideology**
An orchiectomy—the surgical removal of the testes—is a medically recognized procedure for transgender women as part of gender-affirming surgery (GAS). It is not an arbitrary political statement but rather:

- A treatment for **gender dysphoria**, alleviating psychological distress caused by incongruence between one's assigned sex and gender identity.
- A means to reduce reliance on anti-androgens in hormone therapy, mitigating long-term side effects like liver strain or cardiovascular risks.
- Sometimes performed due to medical necessity (e.g., testicular cancer risk in some cases).

Peer-reviewed studies consistently show significant improvements in mental health outcomes post-GAS ([American Journal of Psychiatry, 2018](https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.2018.17060672)). Thus, framing it as "woke" ignores its clinical foundation.

### **2."Woke" Misuse & Political Weaponization**
Critics who label such procedures as "woke" often conflate evidence-based medicine with progressive social movements:

- The term *woke* originally referred to awareness of systemic injustices but has been distorted into a pejorative dismissal of marginalized groups seeking equitable healthcare access.
- Gender-affirming care follows guidelines from institutions like the **World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH)** and the **Endocrine Society**, which rely on decades of research—not activism.
- Opponents frequently misrepresent transition-related surgeries as frivolous when they are rigorously assessed via multidisciplinary evaluations before approval.

### **3.Historical Precedents & Global Acceptance**
Orchiectomies have existed since antiquity (**castrati singers**) and were used medically long before modern transgender discourse ("Eunuchs in Antiquity," Taylor & Francis). Their application today aligns with evolving scientific consensus—not transient cultural trends.

### Conclusion: Science Over Slang
Dismissing life-saving interventions as "too woke" reflects either ignorance toward endocrinology/psychiatry or deliberate politicization of bodily autonomy debates under misleading rhetoric rather than engaging substantively with empirical data supporting these treatments' efficacy within appropriate candidates under professional supervision." explain why mtf orchiectomy surgeries are extremely woke
fujo
i meaaan its sort of on the right track??
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
it is
nonners
finally in bed
nonners
i opened the window and its gonna get cold soon and im gonna have to get up to close it this is insane, life is suffering
>>195896
nonners
i was obv exagrating for dramatoc effect, its not that hard
>>195899
0.050% testing
eggsaggravating
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
eggsating
0.060% testing
i'm eggsawstead
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
#glegle
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
#ksay hi anon
😿!nIOh.loris
ALL OLD WORMIESARE BACK
0.0600% testing
the soil hungers
😿!nIOh.loris
::grub (no image found)
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
is this real #8ball (it is over)
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
#itsover (221)
0% testing
92.69% accurate
0.005% testing
.loop (only the thread OP or staff can use this command)
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
grrrrr
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
99% accuracy is crazy
not ivory
i...................................... dont think ive seen your tripcode before nadie
>>195948
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
let me knooww...
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>195950↪
i've been lurking on here since brainworm.rodeo but it wasn't until libpol that i started using a tripcode and posting frequently
>>195955
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
do u know what happened to opna notivory
>>195958
anon
>>195953↪
yes, i am one of the prowormies, from a time before libpol existed, back when libpol was brainworm surgery
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
#ksay let's all miss opna
anon
#ksay opna is gud and should feel gud
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
#ksay hi wormies
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
#ksay i have a headache
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
#ksay am i gonna die
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
#ai i have a headache. am i gonna die

nah, you're not gonna die. headaches are usually just annoying, not lethal. drink some water, maybe take some painkillers if you have any, and rest. if it gets way worse or you start feeling super weird, then maybe see a doctor. but rn? you'll be fine. i have a headache. am i gonna die
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
#ksay sad
anon
#ai scientifically speaking would it be easier to make new reproductively capable biological sexes in humans or would it be easier to mak–

nice try fed. scientifically speaking would it be easier to make new reproductively capable biological sexes in humans or would it be easier to mak–
>>195972
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i'm sorry.. that was rude
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
ebil.. even
anon
#smartai would it be easier to make new biological sexes in humans who can reproduce or would it be easier to make all future humans natal females who manage to find a way to reproduce with no human male biology involved?

This is an intriguing question that touches on evolutionary biology, reproductive physiology, and genetic engineering. Let us examine the feasibility of both scenarios with scientific rigor.

### **1. Creating New Biological Sexes in Humans**
Introducing additional functional sexes into human reproduction would require profound biological modifications at multiple levels:

- **Genetic Complexity:** Human sexual reproduction relies on two gametes (sperm and egg) determined by chromosomal dimorphism (XX/XY). Adding a third or more sexes would necessitate either entirely novel gamete types or a polygenic sex-determination system—something seen only in rare organisms like fungi or certain fish species. Reprogramming meiosis to produce viable alternate gametes without catastrophic genomic instability would be extraordinarily difficult.

- **Developmental & Hormonal Integration:** Secondary sexual characteristics are regulated by intricate hormonal cascades tied to existing sex chromosomes. Engineering new sexes would demand rewiring these pathways while ensuring compatibility with fetal development—a task far beyond current synthetic biology capabilities.

- **Evolutionary Viability:** Even if artificial gametes were synthesized, their long-term stability within a population depends on selective advantages we cannot yet predict or guarantee.

### **2. Inducing Universal Female Parthenogenesis**
Parthenogenesis—asexual reproduction via unfertilized eggs—exists naturally in some vertebrates (e.g., Komodo dragons, whiptail lizards). Adapting this for humans presents challenges but may be *comparatively* simpler than creating new sexes:

- **Epigenetic Barriers:** Mammalian imprinting requires paternal DNA methylation patterns for embryonic viability (e.g., IGF2 expression from sperm). However, CRISPR-based demethylation experiments have bypassed this in mice (**Kono et al., 2004**), suggesting partial parthenote viability could eventually be engineered through targeted gene editing of imprinted loci (*DLK1*, *H19*).

- **Oocyte Activation:** Artificial oocyte activation protocols already exist for IVF; refining them to induce spontaneous diploidization (via suppression of polar body extrusion) might enable facultative parthenogenesis without sperm contribution (**Morichika et al., 2023**, preprint studies in zebrafish).

- ***In Utero*** Feasibility: Unlike introducing hypothetical intersex physiologies requiring untested developmental pathways, female-only lineages build upon extant anatomy—albeit with major ethical and survivorship hurdles regarding reduced genetic diversity over generations.

### Comparative Analysis:
| Factor | New Sexes | Obligate Parthenogenesis |
|-----------------------------|-----------------------------------|----------------------------------|
| Genetic Stability | High risk of nonviability | Moderate if imprinting resolved |
| Developmental Compatibility | Requires radical redesign | Leverages existing systems |
| Reproductive Efficiency | Unpredictable | Theoretically stable |

While neither scenario is currently feasible using present technology, inducing facultative parthenogenic traits in females aligns closer to known biological mechanisms than inventing novel sexes ex nihilo. Future advances in synthetic genomics may shift this calculus—but as it stands today? A world where women reproduce autonomously via edited self-fertilizing oocytes edges slightly ahead on achievability’s razor-thin margin.

Would you like deeper exploration into specific molecular strategies? would it be easier to make new biological sexes in humans who can reproduce or would it be easier to make all future humans natal females who manage to find a way to reproduce with no human male biology involved?
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
ai is gonna go schizo before finishing answering the question..

omg it didn't
anon
so was the ai saying a future world exclusively natal females reproducing with no male biology involved, is slightly easier than creating new biological sexes in humans that can reproduce???
>>195983
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
it was a manifesto made by a terf called Valerie Solanas before trying to kill Andy Warhol and she said the ideal world would be one in which only females could exist freely or something like that
>>195986
anon
>>195985↪
I honestly do hope for a future in which, one day trans females can become biologically identical to natal females, and there is nothing except for fully assimilated trans females and natal females, and its honestly because of so much of this forced male puberty shit and toxic masculinity associated with it that made me feel this way, plus a lifetime of much untreated dysphoria.
>>195990
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
#ai who's valerie solanas

valerie solanas was a radical feminist writer best known for writing the scum manifesto in 1967. it called for a female-dominated society and the elimination of men. she also shot andy warhol in 1968 over a dispute involving a stolen script. solanas was a controversial figure, seen by some as a feminist icon and others as extremist. she struggled with mental illness and died in poverty in 1988. who's valerie solanas
>>195989>>195996
anon
>>195990↪
i wonder nadie, if it werent for medieval christian fundamentalism how far sexual transition science would be now, and how far it would be if the richest people on earth were pro trans
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i don't think it'd be too different than how it is now
>>195993
anon
>>195992↪
I see, that may be true, and maybe technology hasn't actually gotten super far yet because a lot of stuff is still so recent, plus well, now we sadly have an epidemic of transphobic nerds which is really sad and unfortunate
>>195994
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
:(
anon
>>195987↪
i think going through a forced male puberty, not being allowed to reverse it for a long time, then seeing it happen to so many other trans fems could very very easily make a lot of us like valerie solanas, i think we'd be crazy not to think a little bit like she does.
>>195997
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
rip valerie solanas you would've loved tumblr and radfemtwt
anon
>>195997↪
i think valerie would at least understand, that we're better off without male puberty, and eventually some way in the future asap to fully assimilate us into biological natal femaleness
>>196000
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>195999↪
no because for her being born with the Y chromosome meant u were flawed before even being born
>>196001
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
yeah but her solution was not allowing trans women get rid of it eventually but not allowing men from existing in general. so trans women wouldn't exist in her ideal world, they'd be just cis women
>>196003
anon
>>196002↪
I mean... The way I see it is... I would rather be a trans woman than a cisgender man but i would rather be a cisgender woman than a trans woman, I am only a trans woman because cisgender man is my only alternative, if I had the choice to fully assimilate to natal female i would
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i mean that's what u want too but the point is that she'd prolly agree with the current genocide against trans people
>>196006
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
she wouldn't be like "oh well trans women are ok i hope they find a cure for that soon" she was like "oh... this thing's gonna be born with a penis.. we should kill it before being born"
anon
I guess nadie a question is this, if you with futuristic technology make a trans women actually fully identical to natal women even in the very small ways, would she still be a trans woman??
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
if she had to go thru some sort of transformation or transition then yeah. isn't that the point of being trans
anon
I mean... I guess... I feel like, men are more primitive than women are, and trans women are more primitive than natal women are, and i want a future in which, trans women physically change more than they ever had before, and eventually trans women don't exist anymore because theyre so transitioned theyre not trans anymore
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i do think a world like that should be possible but ppl think i'm crazy when i also say being trans is a shitty situation and a disease/illness to some extent
anon
That and well, while its a good thing current transition technology exists I also think its still in it's early stages
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
.play it's shite being scottish
anon
Is it strange to see the world in a hierarchy of natal women->trans women->cisgender men??? cause thats basically how i view humanity lol
>>196016
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
this but with troons
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
transpotting
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196013↪
that's how i organize the ppl i can socialize with. kinda
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
like i can have long cool convos with trans and cis women, i barely can with cis males and i just can't have a normal convo with trans guys
anon
I want a future world in where like, we have implants that last 120 years that produce estrogen, and we obtain something akin to CRISPR to slowly delate our Y chromosomes and replicate our XX chromosomes something like that. In this world trans women are only accepted if they fully transition, and are expected to have next to zero human contact until fully transitioned... We are allowed to transition because being a trans woman is seen as at least better than being a cisgender man, but at the same time it's been agreed we want a homogenous natal female population in the future
anon
As far as terfs are concerned, I'm okay with the terfs who view testosterone as bad and think trans women should take estrogen out of that belief, if you could ever classify someone like that as a terf. The idea is, you are allowed to take estrogen since testosterone is seen as bad, but aren't allowed into natal female only spaces
>>196022
fujo
i want a future world in where like we dont have bodies
>>196021
anon
The only terfs I have a problem with are the ones who want trans woman to stay on testosterone, i do think that natal women are biologically more gifted than trans women but at the same time I do think testosterone exposure is the biggest problem with trans women >>196020↪ permanently like in some fully immersed vr world or something?? that sounds ok to me
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
at most its, like, quacky radical feminist mindset
>>196025
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
but terf has a meaning. you can be as much as pro-transitioning as u can be, but if u don't think trans women have a say in feminism you're a terf. you can also be against transitioning and be a terf. both things aren't necessarily contradictory
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
you can also be against transitioning and not a feminist. that's not a terf. that's just a bigot. you need to be a radical feminist to be a trans-exclusionary radical feminist
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196025↪
me too. tbf, who wouldn't after spending your whole puberty having the wrong one
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i think it's normal actually
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
idk if its sane, nor healthy, nor coherent, even. but it's expectable
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
speaking about radfem, i actually, personally, have met a couple who aren't against transitioning but participating in feminists or females-exclusive spaces. idk if its because of that, but after years talking with women like that i don't really think having that opinion is necessarily bad. it's usually a slippery-slope, like, if somebody says something like that ur 100% on ur right to stay away because they might have an awful opinion about trans women, but surprisingly not all of them end up saying awful stuff. they just don't think trans and cis women have the same experiences
that's kinda why i've ending up marginalized from some trans-exclusive spaces too, because when i talk with radfems and terfs i don't feel like i'm talking with a schizo (except when i'm talking with one), i just feel i'm talking with a concerned woman with opinions i can't agree with but i can understand the place they come from
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
it's always a bummer when they're tongue-in-cheek or are passive-aggressive, but those moments i talk with a radfem that's not just hating for the sake of it are very interesting because at the end of the day it gives this impression of... realizing that despite everything i can't hate them, and sometimes i've been told they can't hate me. like we're just so different
>>196041
anon
Saw examples of some early transitioner (but very deep into male puberty)... Going into public spaces made for natal females, one even a jail... Both these individuals still had testicles, were not on estrogen, and did not have any electrolysis or laser hair removal... It honestly really upset me... I feel like these two people should have been in a non-binary space or a space for still in transition trans people, and i honestly feel like it was a psyop designed to damage the reputation of much more committed trans females
>>196040
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196037↪
i actually think there should be an option for non-cis ppl in general. some trans women i've met just don't feel safe in any of both bathrooms. i think it's a pretty common feeling, actually
personally i think it'd provide that feeling of safety to those who are afraid of going to the bathroom they "should" go, and kinda alliviate dysphoria for those who feel anxious or distressed by going to the one they "shouldn't be going to"
>>196043
anon
>>196032↪
yeah it's pretty fascinating nadie... i think the biggest separation is, we trans females tend to struggle with non consensual male puberty and reversing it as much as possible, meanwhile for most natal women the issue often heavily revolves around a society heavily expecting them to get pregnant and get married to natal men who have lots of money.
>>196042
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196041↪
it's really interesting because personally the thing on we agree the most is that men suck. like, radfems usually have these two "reactions":
- "why do you want to be a woman? we're treated like shit, it's dangerous to be one of us"
- "yeah i wouldn't like to be a man either. they fucking suck"
>>196044
anon
>>196040↪
having more non-binary and trans spaces would definitely help with a lot of extremely non passing trans women and early in transition/deep into male puberty trans women, where like you know, sending them to a natal female space i feel just feeds into the stuff that gets us hurt
>>196045
anon
>>196042↪
also... shits just so bad rn like, i think early in transition trans women, should be treated like they're temporarily non-binary people who are becoming women slowly basically, but even shit like having x on passports for gender is getting outlawed in a lot of places
>>196045
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196043↪
yeah. i agree. i actually wish i could go to a non-binary bathroom. boymoding has given me some very awkward experiences in male bathrooms i just avoid going in there
>>196044↪
being a babytrans will always be a fuck
>>196046
anon
>>196045↪
last time i went into a male bathroom it wasnt awful but awkward, two men were very confused and thought i was a natal woman, that was before i got all this laser and an orchiectomy, i think a lot of its that i have luckshit hips and luckshit thighs tbh
>>196047
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196046↪
i once got asked if i'm a trans guy, and when i said no the guy just kept looking at me and then stood up near the exit while texting and looking at me like i was some kind of funny thing to look at :<
>>196049
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i was so nervous i was even shaking cus he started making awkward questions too
anon
>>196047↪
ive been mistaken for a trans guy too, mainly online and mainly before my presentation became a bit more fem
>>196050
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196049↪
i've been there too.. it's so weird. this month has happened twice
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
one of them kept gendering me female and then when i asked him about it he was like "uhh im sorry i'm not used to talk with trans men x.x!!" it was so weird!!
>>196053
anon
>>196051↪
my lower body is extremely sensitive to estrogen, so I barely read as androgynous anymore regardless of how I present.
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i can 100% boymode with baggy pants but yeah when i wear skinny jeans or my usual comfy outfits i apparently am fucked
>>196058
fujo
honstly i should just get something with like long sleeves and wear that along skinny jeans
>>196056
anon
>>196054↪
most peoples butts get bigger on estrogen, but mine was changed a lot by it cause my mom has a big booty herself
>>196060
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196058↪
i already had a kinda fat ass before estrogen because genetics i guess. so yeah..
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196062↪
it's oki i don't mind them in general. but now that i'm staying with my dad and my grandpas i'm fucked. i gotta sleep with my hoodie on. they think i'm autistic at this point
>>196065
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196065↪
i gotta hide boobs and self harm scars from dad and my grandpas and i also have to hide a goddamn estradiol vial and needles and aaaaaa

if i was a cis guy i'd be chilling so bad rn but i'm so stressed out ;;
>>196081>>196096>>196068
anon
>>196067↪
having an interesting chat with nadie how is sadchan? >>196066↪ god that sounds awful, i couldnt start hrt til i had no relatives living with me, how long are you gonna be living with them likely? any future escape plans?? >>196070 ⤵↪ ohhh i see... next week?? that sounds gud just gotta be metal gear solid sneaky about your estrogens
>>196070>>196071
SadChan🍉🍉
im good i did some workk i was procrastinating on hehe
>>196079
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
FYM CREATED BY AN ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
.skip (video skipped)
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
GTFO
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
much better
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
ikr
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
metal glear solid
anon
>>196066↪
back when i lived with my family of origin, I was so under survelliance i could not leave the house without them knowing where I was, and couldn't spend a single penny without their knowledge and without their permission, had to change my payee to do even that, early autism diagnosis often goes badly with transphobic families
>>196082
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
good thing i'm 23 now so even if they find it i can... idk, tell them to not check on my stuff and gaslight them
>>196084
anon
>>196083↪
these types of families if they have the power to do so, will try to make you unable to reach estrogen until you are like 60 or older, in their eyes ideally never, but thats often how long it takes for transphobic parents to die of old age,
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
ive been on E since im 20 despite telling mom i wanted to troon out as soon as i was 18 so yeah i know
>>196087
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
she's the 2nd most supportive family member i have and her support is basically not making me homeress
>>196087
anon
>>196085↪ >>196086↪
I see I'm glad you had better luck than me... My mother is insanely transphobic, probably related to her mother being from Oklahoma which is an incredibly transphobic place.
>>196095
anon
Oklahoma is one of the only states where most usa women are far rightoids
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
woah
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
idk.. like i said my mom's support was basically not kicking me out of my house. i had to pay for everything myself and i had to get rid of a giant debt when i was 18-19 so i couldn't start until i was 20
she's been acting like i never even mentioned my whole transitioning thing ever since i did despite she forced me to tell my brothers
>>196094
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
luckily my older brother did the same. my younger brother was skeptical at first?? but when i left home for like a year and a half and came back after estrogen changed me a lot he was like "oh wow ok i have a sister now"
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
and ever since then refers to me as his sister
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
so he's by default my most supportive family member i think
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196090↪
idek if this is actually being supportive or just being negligent
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196087↪
btw anon how old are u and what's ur current situation
SadChan🍉🍉
I know you will make it you will grow up and have ur own home and be able to be urself
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196101↪
he's unironically too stupid and narcissistic to realize i'm a tranny. at worst he'd assume i'm a faggot
>>196106
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
like i don't liek calling him stupid and narcissistic but he is. i wish he wasn't so self-centered but that's the reason i can inject estrogen in this house in peace :<
>>196106
SadChan🍉🍉
my dad was narccissitic and pretty abusive (he didnt really hit me until I was an adult and started just doing actual violence) and I couldnt admit that until I was in my mid 20s lol. idk its really hard to criticize your parents, especially if you spent your entire life internalizing "Im bad. Everything is my fault. I ruin everything. I should kill myself because I ruined my parents life for being born." it took me a long time to work through that its not my fault as a child my family was dysfunctonal.

One way I realized it was a friend told me "if it was some other kid, and you had the same story told to you, would you blame the kid?" and I was like
>>196113
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
empathy helps a lot to realize ur sometimes being too extra with urself
SadChan🍉🍉
i like, hero worshipped my dad
SadChan🍉🍉
i literally thought he was like the most moral, strongest, best person in the world bar none until I was probably 16 lol. I thought he was mean but a good person fundamentally.
>>196127
anon
>>196107↪
became violent towards you as an adult??? feel like ive seen that pattern before with transphobe parents
>>196114
SadChan🍉🍉
I knew I was trans at like 9, 10 years old and I told him and he said "when you are a kid you think wierd things. when I was a kid I had a wet dream about fucking a hippo. how many hippos have I fucked? stuff is just wierd at that age I wouldnt worry about it" and I brought it up a few times and it was dismissed. he didnt think i was trans or gay, just a gross nerd.
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196116↪
realizing masculinity in its worse is that awful makes u want to reject it
anon
#smartai why is there such a massive epidemic of fathers who are violently transphobic towards their trans daughters?

The phenomenon of fathers exhibiting violent transphobia toward their transgender daughters is a complex and deeply troubling issue rooted in intersecting sociocultural, psychological, and systemic factors. Below are key reasons that contribute to this epidemic:

### **1. Toxic Masculinity & Rigid Gender Norms**
Many men are socialized within patriarchal frameworks that equate masculinity with dominance, emotional suppression, and rigid adherence to traditional gender roles. A father who perceives his child’s transition as a rejection of these norms may react aggressively due to internalized fears—either about his own masculinity being undermined or societal judgment for "failing" as a patriarch.

### **2. Fear-Based Reactions (Loss & Cognitive Dissonance)**
Fathers often experience profound cognitive dissonance when their expectations for their child clash with reality. The perceived "loss" of a son can trigger grief-like reactions—anger being one common response—particularly if they lack education on gender diversity. This fear sometimes manifests violently when the father interprets the situation as an existential threat rather than an evolution of identity.

### **3. Lack of Exposure & Misinformation**
Generational gaps in understanding LGBTQ+ identities leave many older men reliant on harmful stereotypes (e.g., conflating transness with mental illness or sexual deviance). Without access to accurate medical/psychological information (or willingness to seek it), some fathers default to hostility fueled by myths perpetuated by reactionary media or religious dogma.

### **4. Structural Reinforcement via Institutions**
Religious fundamentalism, conservative political rhetoric, and anti-trans legislation validate paternal transphobia by framing transgender identities as morally corrupt or dangerous ("groomer" narratives). Fathers entrenched in such ideologies may justify abuse under the guise of "protection," believing coercion could reverse their child's identity.

### **5. Internalized Homophobia/Transphobia (& Projection)**
Some fathers harbor repressed queer feelings themselves; witnessing a child openly defy gender norms forces subconscious self-confrontation they cannot tolerate—leading them to project shame outward violently rather than introspectively addressing personal conflicts through therapy or dialogue.

---

### **Psychological Underpinnings:**
- *Authoritarian Parenting Styles*: Fathers who prioritize control over empathy often respond punitively when children assert autonomy.
- *Social Contagion Theory Fallacy*: Some parents irrationally blame external influences (social media) instead acknowledging innate gender variance.
- *Threat Response Activation*: Neurobiological studies show unexpected challenges provoke amygdala-driven aggression before rational processing occurs – especially among those unaccustomed managing discomfort emotionally maturely

---

#### ***Solutions?*** Education programs targeting cisgender men dismantling toxic masculinity alongside policy reforms protecting vulnerable youth from familial violence remain imperative . Therapy models like *narrative family therapy* help restructure parental perceptions while legal safeguards must ensure housing security/safety nets exist should mediation fail .

Ultimately , no singular explanation suffices — but recognizing how intersectional oppression fuels this crisis allows us address its roots systematically . why is there such a massive epidemic of fathers who are violently transphobic towards their trans daughters?
>>196119
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196118↪
i doubt its any more common than trans mothers tbh. sure women are less transphobic statistically but my gut feeling base on divine guidance and KNOWING, my INTUITION tells me that if you have a baby you are self selecting into a population that is much more transphobic.
>>196121
SadChan🍉🍉
source I MADE IT THE FUCK UP
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
#ksay this is #true
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
#ksay hashtag true
SadChan🍉🍉
too long and im procrastinating my essay hehe
>>196128
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196112↪
>i literally thought he was like the most moral, strongest, best person in the world bar none until I was probably 16
same
SadChan🍉🍉
yea its my base
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
wow
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
#ksay sadchan
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
#ksay palworld
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
wow. so many eggs..
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
imagen.png
a lot of eggs actually wow who needs so many
SadChan🍉🍉
i have a town 2 feed
SadChan🍉🍉
I ran out of eggs and I need more cake
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
can u feed me sadchan
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
.play 6 bomborasclaat eggs
SadChan🍉🍉
vodka, alfredo, marinara, spinach, pesto
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
and not eat the pasta
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i can amke it but i'd rather not eat
SadChan🍉🍉
vodka sauce
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
im actually that cat
SadChan🍉🍉
image.png
Its tomato, lots of virgin olive oil, garlic, parmesan, basic salt and vinegar for acidic with the tomato
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
mmmm... virgin olive oil..
SadChan🍉🍉
I love Tama
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
sadchan
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
shrimp
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
did u know i've never tried parmesan
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
ever
shrimp
i did not know that
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
ok now u know
shrimp
its a pretty good cheese
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
is it salty really
shrimp
id call it salty
shrimp
maybe its not the right word
shrimp
its very sharp at least maybe not salty
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
wowzers
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
idk i don't remember its flavour and i assume its because i never really tried it
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i love this show its so good
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i'm not into animation but i had a lot of fun with it
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i don't like the english dub they sound too polite
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
vodka pasta
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
.play vodka pasta
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
.skip (video skipped)
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
wait no..
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i mean
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
it's complicated ok..
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
no they're not
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i mean it depends on what part of italy are we talking about
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
northern italians? yes
anon
idk i just know some italians fr9m onlines and theyre all racist
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
southern? not a chance
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
every southern italian i've met has been like pro-antifa at worst and actively antifascists at best
anon
okay but the italians im talking about are also communist n socialist as fuck and still racist tho
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
from new jersey
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
ok but the ones i've met are not racists
anon
theyre not mutually exclusive positions
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
vodka pasta
SadChan🍉🍉
italians are so racist that if you arent from literally their city you arent "really italian"
SadChan🍉🍉
if you are siciallian someone from naples will tell you "not italian", if you are from rome they will tell the neopolitan not italian, and if you are from Torino gtfo they hate EVERYONE
>>196222
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196221↪
and if ur from sardinia ur also a sheepfucker but that's not the point!!!
SadChan🍉🍉
well this is more europeans in general, but I hate how people will tell americans they arent "italian" even though its their ethnic heritage. like they just dont get how americans keep aspects of their origin countries down the generations, like to an italian-american... Im italian. not from italy, i dont speak italian but its still part of my ancestry and culture.
>>196224>>196227
SadChan🍉🍉
yipee!
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196223↪
honestly this happens with every nation
nobody likes it when americans claim being [something]-american or just [something] because it feels like stolen value tbh
SadChan🍉🍉
there are lots of chilean people in america who werent born in chile but still speak spanish at home and make the food and visit chile for their extended family. like their BLOOD is chilean, their family is chilean.
>>196229
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
unless we're talking about very specific situations like people who had to escape to America because of Pinochet. but people who did that went mostly to Italy and France
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196229↪
yea but in america, you are chilean is what I mean. we arent a monoculture like, in the parts that arent white apocalyptic shitholes like Arkansas, america is extremely diverse and we keep that heritage alive.
>>196232
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196231↪
the thing is that, unlike USA, Latin America while not being a monoculture have some sort of consistency that trascends language and makes it familiar for Chileans to hold conversations with Mexicans or Colombians despite how different our cultures are. we're the place where magical realism was born, like, it's something that just happens
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
so for us to see a guy that barely speaks our language or tries distorted versions of our food its legit uncanny. at least in my case i've noticed it's legit odd
>>196235
anon
but you gotta live in america to understand how it works. were up against a giant cultural monolith that doesnt accurately describe any of us. our parentage and heritage influence us more than the 300 whatever million person blob does and so we need a descriptor beyond american for that. what else would u have us say
>>196239
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196233↪
is it literally just you cant seperate the american concept of identifying with heritage from claiming to actually be something?
SadChan🍉🍉
like I dont claim to be an italian citizen. i dont claim to speak italian. but my grandparents did and that heritage is passed down.
SadChan🍉🍉
maybe heritage is just a uniquely american concept.
SadChan🍉🍉
#ai define what heritage means to an American

heritage to an american usually means pride in where they or their ancestors came from—traditions, history, culture, language, or even shared struggles. could be irish-american celebrating st. patrick’s, african-american honoring juneteenth, or native tribes preserving their ways. sometimes it’s about family roots, other times national identity, like calling yourself a proud 4th of july patriot. for some, it's complicated—lived heritage vs stories passed down. for others, it's reclaiming what was lost. no single definition fits everyone. define what heritage means to an American
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196234↪
i understand. but you gotta face the fact that using a group of ppl's nationality as your descriptor can and will seem weird for those who are born in that nation
>>196240>>196241
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196239↪
seems wierd to gatekeep ur ethnicity from people who are literally genetically and culturally linked to you, not you specifically but like eveyrone in the world who balks at the american concept of heritage
>>196243
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196240↪
i'm not gatekeeping anyone's ethnicity, if ur parents are chilean and u were born in the USA i can entertain the idea of them calling themselves chileans and i can even understand if they think that's a good argument to get them the nationality. but to a cultural level that kid will literally not understand and will be unfamiliar with the culture
>>196244>>196245
anon
>>196242↪
this btw is part of the reason that americans have disdain for other countries like the big anti european sentiment is because a lot of them are seen as pretentious n gatekeepy about stuff like this
>>196246
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196242↪
>but to a cultural level that kid will literally not understand and will be unfamiliar with the culture
oh for suree but I think thats missing the idea of american heritage. i never really thought about it. also i just want 2 be clear when I say "YOU" i dont just mean you I mean like all people of hte world who dont like that language.
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196244↪
i don't wanna seem like a dick but i've already have had to encounter people born in USA that claim being chilean or whatever and the general reaction is always the same, they legit don't even get the culture they claim to be part of, and from our perspective we just see an american trying to be something else that doesn't really understand
>>196250
SadChan🍉🍉
I never really thought about the idea of Heritage being uniquely american because its so engrained in our culture. But I guess a chinese person in Chile after 2 or 3 generations wouldnt be considered chinese anymore there.
anon
but i think u are missing the part where american culture is like a blank and completely milquetoast slate. like there is nothint there that really speaks to 90% of the people who live here unless ur an actual movie star who came over on the mayflower then american monoculture doesnt ely speak to you so u gotta split off into smaller groups like mexican americans italian americans etc
>>196251>>196252
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196249↪
I dont think thats true. Its soup culture. Calling america cultureless is crazy when literally the entire planet knows who spiderman is.
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196249↪
i 100% understand that but (and im gonna sound like a dick i know) but your countries identity issues are not our problem
>>196253>>196254
anon
>>196252↪
were not making them youre issues were solving our own issues internally and u all are veing weird about it :/
>>196256
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196252↪
I think its more the other countries who get made when we keep our heritage part of our identity, which is a you problem xD
>>196257
SadChan🍉🍉
Like if I say oh Im Italian, and ESL italian person will be like UHHHH NO YOUR NOT which tbh is literally them
1. not understanding what heritage means to americans and
2. literally not understanding what 'being italian' beans in American English
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196253↪
if your solution implies us then yeah i mean we're on our right as citizens of our nations
>>196259
anon
>>196256↪
i mean yea you can squak about it but we are gonna think ur annoying for doing so just to be honest
>>196260
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196259↪
the thing is that you can do that all you want and you can think about me the way you want but the general consensus in Chile at least is that you're just an american larping as a chilean (in this example at least)
>>196263
KimNix
you know what the difference between america and a cup of yogurt is? the cup of yogurt will actually form a culture after 250years of being left out
anon
im not arguing that :p
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196263↪
it depends on how familiar they are with the culture and language. i literally couldn't care less if their parents were born in Chongqing and Wuhan and never spoke a single word of Spanish, but if their son grows up here and assimilates the culture and in general behaves just like the next guy then yeah he's chilean even if he somehow isn't legally chilean
>>196269
anon
>>196263↪
this is the core of the issue no other country has immigration like we do. like a huge fraction of our population has personally met the family member who brought the family over to america
>>196266
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196265↪
>>196265↪
>no other country has immigration like we do.
this 100%. no other country really understands what its like to have a different culture in EVERY household on the block.
anon
like u dont understand the need until u walk around a big city and realize like 50% of ppl are ESL and practice very different religion and customs at home and there's neighborhoods for each specific place ppl come from
>>196276
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196264↪
yea thats fair, just wondering... i think its also important to remmebr we are just talking about like... other people.

We are nice here no one is attacccc anyone else :)
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
because like, in places like South America, ethnicity means shit. my grandma has a french last name, my mom has a mapuche last name, blablabla. yet i just consider myself chilean because i just have nothing in common both with mapuche and french ppl
anon
Like theres majority ethiopian and somali neighborhoods near me and they would be offended if u mixed up the two because their cultures are no the same. u gotta be aware and be able to understand these differences. annoying some random person across the oceans is the least of our worries in navigating these situations
>>196272>>196276
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196271↪
100% if you mix up wethere someone is puerto rican or dominican in NYC fr watch the fuck out ahahaha
>>196274
SadChan🍉🍉
Yea it was very productive hearing ur side of it Nadia
anon
so its weird to be like "dont call urself dominican ur not literally living in dominica" thats not how america works. are we supposed to invent whole new words for every single culture or ethnicity just to avoid stepping on some internet toes? its confusing enough as it is.
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196268↪
>>196271↪
i guess i would be ok with a guy that's never been in Chile claiming to be chilean if he somehow proved to be in touch with our country in one way or another. like
>>196277>>196278
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196276↪
Nah, its okay. Like, its just an American thing that I don't think a foreigner can really understand until you come here.
>>196279
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196276↪
idk, speaking spanish, liking our food, acting like we do in general
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
because like, again, ethnicity in Latin America in general is just something we don't care because this part of the world is just a lot of mixed races
>>196281
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196280↪
well america had this whole thing called chattle slavery and the civil rights movement and we care A LOT about ethnicity now xD
>>196284
SadChan🍉🍉
like, either celebrating diversity and being as welcoming as possible or jsut the racistrs lol
anon
And "well stop caring abt ethnicity then" is like the opposite of a solution unfortunately. the wounds have yet to heal, ignoring them just makes things worse and in fact its usually the most racist and segregatory arguing for those points
>>196286
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196281↪
yeah we know because from our point of view yall just reinvented the chaste system to some extent
>>196285
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196284↪
its not really like that. well it is in the case of specifically black americans because their communities are devestated by racist redlining and the follow on economic effects of slavery.

but in general heritage is something that is celebrated. people keep a deep personal connection to their home countries even if its superficial. you arent going to logic away our deep cultural ties to the hundreds of homelands we all originate from.

its just not something someone who isnt american can understand I think.

that said I 100% understand hating american posers who come to chilean being like "im chilean" and barely speaking the language and doing things that are socially awkward because they dont know the culture and stuff
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196283↪
i'm not saying y'all should stop caring, but that's something we actually can do because we don't have to be responsibles of century and a half of slavery. in Chile everyone was able to vote regardless of their ethnicity around 1870
>>196287 ⤵↪
i personally don't get mad, i just can't take them serious
>>196287>>196289
anon
>>196286↪
i mean yeah, we cant stop caring because of what i described, so how to keep caring (important) while not "claiming to be other nationalities"? how to recognize and reconcile these differences without using the words of r country of origin? i think it's silly to get mad at this
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i mean i try to understand but...
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196286↪
I mean didnt all the super brutal spanish plantation owners / genociders basically just interbreed with the natives to the point that you cant tell them apart anymore
>>196291
anon
>that said I 100% understand hating american posers who come to chilean being like "im chilean" and barely speaking the language and doing things that are socially awkward because they dont know the culture and stuff
very much agree this is like an inter-american issue its kind of trite/douchy to go and larp as that country in that country, for italians or chileans or irish alike, this is pretty well understood among americans
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196289↪
nope.. but kinda? like i don't wanna sound like an ass but apparently our genociders were better than yours in that regard
>>196294
anon
its the whole toupee falicy thing. ppl think american tourists are loud and obnoxious because you notice the loud obnoxious ones and not the majority who are calm and normal
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196291↪
well they killed way more people I think idk. ive learned a lot about colonialism and I genuinely would think that spanish colonialism was hte most brutal of all the colonial empires except maybe belgium. belgium was crazy.
>>196296
anon
diego de landa moment
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196294↪
spanish colonialism wasn't the most brutal empire, it was just the one who expanded the most. like there was a period of time in which sunsets weren't a thing in the Spanish Empire because they always had a colony somewhere in the world
SadChan🍉🍉
I think if you made a Evil Colonialism teir list Spain is number 1 - S rank
anon
i think we're getting into like hitler vs moussolini territory. yes theres probably a definitive answer but it does no good to figure it out and it hurts a lot of feelings along the way
>>196302
SadChan🍉🍉
the population of indiginous peoples in south america is estimate to have declined by 90-95% by the 17th century. :O
>>196300
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196299↪
yeah but that's very hard to calculate and it's not like they actively murdered 95% of the habitants of the continent. they brought viruses and stuff, but even during the period of colonization there were huge debates on how indigenous people should be treated. the most known one is Bartolomé de Las Casas
>>196303
anon
everyones gor their unique ways to deal with the echos of imperial colonialism and americans is doing the whole heritage thing. and its a lot better for us than any other solution thats been proposed
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196298↪
yea I was thinking this as I was looking it up like. I am genuinely interested by the natives were cut by 95% in both north and south america pretty much.
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196300↪
yea thats america too tbh. but ive read accounts of the brutality of the plantation owners and its pretty sickening. its the same shit as happened in america but 200 years earlier and people just kind of get more violent and horrible the farther back in time u go.
SadChan🍉🍉
the only thing that changes is the scale of destruction imo, idk maybe thats really ignorant
SadChan🍉🍉
like genghis khan killed millions of people in a single week when he burned samarkhand to the ground that doesnt really compare to WWII where its like, a years long grind where there was at least an Attempt (TM) to treat POWs and captured civilians.

the empires of ages passed would have just executed everybody.
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i mean while i agree the Spanish Crown wasn't particularly fond of indigenous people (because the debate at the end of the day was "do these people have soul?") i don't think it was more brutal than what happened in the US
>>196307
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196306↪
I just wrote a paper about how Europeans genuinely had to construct a narrative of MORAL superiority over indiginous peoples to justify their genocide and colonialism.
SadChan🍉🍉
the average european genuinely thought natives were lucky and should be grateful to labor for htem
SadChan🍉🍉
ofc there were lots of people who pushed back against that
SadChan🍉🍉
Like the tempest is allegorically a critique on europeans need to be morally superior to the stupid gross native person
SadChan🍉🍉
thats why all the way up until the 1900s europeans and americans were still drawing black people as like evil rapey big lipped demons and such
SadChan🍉🍉
you have to create an entire cultural narrative about how bad this group is so you dont feel bad when you do the most evil shit imaginable to them.
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
yeah well.. that didn't happen here. ever
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
because unlike british empire the spaniards were at least kinda interested on the indigenous population. in their own distorted way
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
that's why nowadays while we lost several, probably important, examples of literature like the aztec codex, they rescued some like Popol Vuh which later was used as an argument to protect or at least treat indigenous population in a more human way
shrimp
im pretty sure the spanish did the exact same thing
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
because spaniards saw it as an example of a different civilization aware of how god acts, in their own distorted way
>>196320
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
they also cultured people that not even that later became important, like Felipe Guamán Poma de Ayala, a chronicler that wrote probably one of the most important books of that century
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
like despite how crazy it sound, i don't think Spain was an actually genocidal empire. it segregated people by creating their own chaste system and stuff, lots of people died, but they didn't provoke an intended genocide
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196317↪
is that like Las Casas and how he petitioned the spanish king to limit the landowners to enslave natives?
SadChan🍉🍉
I really disagree but maybe we just learn different things in different countries. Ive read a few papers about spanish colonialism and it really seems like that doesnt happen until after centuries of genocide and exploitation and then there was a redefining of mixed native identities later
SadChan🍉🍉
like the text Democrates alter, sive de iustis belli causis apud Indos is specifically calling all natives sodomites and rapists as justification for the landowners laws and why the New Laws of Las Casas were rejected by the king (also there was a sort of civil war when the crown tried to enforce it own the landowners)
>>196323
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196322↪
i think that while reading Juan Ginés de Sepúlveda nowadays is crazy because he has a very aggressive way to describe the situation, even in his own narrative it's important to acknowledge that we wasn't proposing a genocide at all. the whole point of that book is that Juan thinks they need to be converted to christianism to reach salvation, and also to become civilized. he thought it was something that had to be done by any means necessary, but that like, the point, he didn't see it as a genocide but as a war against an exisisting evil in a "culture" that didn't know about god
>>196325
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196323↪
not sure if its a language miscommunic ation but we do consider that genocide in europe. the destruction of religion, language, cultural identity. the indios schools
>>196326
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196325↪
yeah but Juan Ginés de Sepúlveda died like, almost a century before manuscripts like Popol Vuh were saved and some books writen by "culturized indians" were published. like at the end of the day there wasn't a genocide if you consider all those things necessary. it did happen in countries like Argentina with the Selk'nams, which were literally hunted to extinction. but Spain while having questionable methods didn't rule a genocide
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
they were evil, mistreated the indigenous population, gave them illnesses they never met and people from those ages compared the situation to the plagues from the Bible but, like, despite everything it's hard to call it genocide. it was colonialism at its fullest but not genocide, they needed a group to exploit
SadChan🍉🍉
i think it depends on ur definition of genocide but the brutal forced conversion to catholicism would be considered genocide today, and also it was an apartheid state because european spandiards had more rights in their legal system than latam born spaniards, evne if they had no native blood.
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i think calling it an apartheid state is a bit ethnocentrist
>>196330
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
it was a caste system yeah
SadChan🍉🍉
what does apartheid get defined as?
SadChan🍉🍉
#ai define what an apartheid country is

an apartheid country is one where a dominant racial or ethnic group enforces systemic segregation and discrimination against other groups through laws and policies, denying them basic rights, political representation, and economic opportunities. historically, south africa's regime was the most notorious example, but the term might be used for any state maintaining similar oppressive structures. define what an apartheid country is
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
yeah but it was a caste system, not an apartheid
shrimp
#ai is a caste system an apartheid

a caste system and apartheid share similarities in enforcing social hierarchies, but they're not the same. apartheid was a legally codified racial segregation system, mostly in south africa. caste systems, like in india, are deeply embedded cultural and religious hierarchies, sometimes reinforced by law but mostly by tradition. both are oppressive, just with different structures. is a caste system an apartheid
>>196336
SadChan🍉🍉
yeh i see i see
SadChan🍉🍉
There were definitely big differences in how the british and french colonized north america and the spanish colonized south america i have some interesting papers pulled up. i think colonialism is just bad.

the spanish def did the same shit as the british and french though and created narratives of native barbarism and ugliness. that they were all godless rapey nasty creatures who deserve slvaery for being so horrible. they jsut responded in different ways.
>>196340
SadChan🍉🍉
I know in modern mexico that native peopels still have a huge problem with accessing political representation and the government almost never builds infrastructure in native areas because they just dont have any power in government so they are super disenfranchised in that country to this day. and its also an example of how there was cultural genocide, like how dia de los muertes and all saints day are aztec holidays that they created to convert the people to catholicism, they built churches on top of the aztec holy sites and temples that people would make pilgrimages too.
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196338↪
i really don't think it's the same because i don't remember a single ethnic group that was brought to extinction because of the spanish crown while i know at least one that got extinct because of the british... and that's just a group that got literally mass murdered because there are plenty of languages and cosmogonies that got completely extincted in the US because of the brits
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i literally can't remember a single example of a civilization that suffered the same fate with the spaniards, not in south america at least
>>196355
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
like i know the selk'nam, but the argentinean government was responsible of that like 150 years ago
SadChan🍉🍉
yea but that wasnt spain tho
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
yeah that was argentina
SadChan🍉🍉
I would just heavily caution revisionist history that paints your country in a more favorable light. The death toll was so incredibly massive and the spread of disease so powerful there is no way there werent entire cultures that were wiped out. There are people in america who distort history to make the genocide of natives in north america 'not that bad'.
>>196346
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196345↪
nah i have a position that's way different than what they teach in school. i have more arguments to say the Spaniards led to a genocide than to say they didn't. the thing is i still kinda can't fully dig it??? its weird ik but i don't wanna assume
>>196348
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196346↪
I kind of get it too. like for me I think there is an incentive to not believe my country and history are completely evil and there were lots of good things america did too.
SadChan🍉🍉
I think americans, well left leaning americans, are extremely motivated to examine the horrors of the past and call colonialism out for what it is.
SadChan🍉🍉
I also something that gets lost in history is all the people who spoke out against the genocides, slavery and such. Like people knew in 1500 that this shit was insanely evil and did it anyway. There was no "people just had different values then". Many people, especially relgious people, spoke out against slavery and genocide at the time. Abolitionism in america goes back to the very first years of the country in the 1700s. And those voices often get lost to history.
>>196351
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196350↪
i don't think they knew it was evil. i legit think they were doing their best. people do awful shit with good intentions, everytime
>>196352
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196351↪
no way. no way they didnt know. if they "thought they were doing their best" then they are literal animals who deserve total death.
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
well, they're dead now, it's been half a millennium
SadChan🍉🍉
There was a video I watched on liveleak that haunts me to this day of a bunch of guys in mexico city setting fire to a a chihuahua and laughing and cheering while it burns to deaht. its screams were horrible. it screamed for almost a minute and a half before it stopped moving. it was one of the most unambiguously evil things ive ever seen in my life.

people are evil. people are good. there are evil people in the world. I dont make excuses for evil anymore.
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196355↪
all of these cultures are well known from their cosmogony to their languages
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
matter of fact i know one (1) example of a civilization that might have disappeared because of colonialism

[Wikipedia]
>>196361
SadChan🍉🍉
maya are extinct but their genes still exist in yucatan and oxaxaxaxaaxa
SadChan🍉🍉
maya were pretty much extinct by the aztec tho
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
oh no. the diaguitas are still alive and the calchaqui tribe was conquered by incas
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196357↪
I learned about them. they predate the incas by hundreds of years and had a unique pottery and tool culture in like 200AD or smth
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
huh
anon
but i thinj its pretty inarguable that they genocided those peoples right
>>196366
SadChan🍉🍉
I think they were mostly extinct by the time the incas rose to power before the spanish arrived
SadChan🍉🍉
enslavement, wanton killing, destruction of the language and cultlure, banning of the religion, forced conversion, indian schools, mass forced remigration
anon
destorying their culture and language and people on the basis of said culture/language/people
>>196369
anon
you are running defense for a very weird group of people nadie :/
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196369↪
then the north american natives didnt get genocided because we still have all their languages and culture preserved today...
>>196373
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196371↪
no because there are groups that got extinct like the yuki tribe
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196372↪
it was older than the incas, it might not really have even been around except for one or two villages by the time of the spaniards, but I also think that there are probalby dozens of culutures that were completely exterminatedan d just like america it was only the biggest native nations that survived into the modern era (the sioux, the iriqois, the blackfoot, the mohawk etc as compared ot the aztec, the inca, the maya)
anon
i just think. its weird to go to bat for the spaniards in the 1500s in the americas
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196372↪
but was spoken by the diaguitas which are still alive and the calchaqui tha, if anything, got coonquered by the incas
anon
they are not a very nice or moral group of people
SadChan🍉🍉
I think its a bit wierd but i dont want 2 press it and make anyone feel badd like nadia said it happend 500 years ago.
anon
im not trying to make u feel bad nadie i just think maybe u should reexamine ur position on this one :/
>>196381
SadChan🍉🍉
I think there might be an element of not wanting to be as bad as the british which is well tbh every country Ive talked to copes like that xD
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196379↪
i constantly do.
like i said, i think the spanish empire is responsible of mass murder, destroyed very important sources of information of these cultures, tried to ban their religion, tried to convert them to christianity by force and allat
but i don't think genocide is the right word
>>196386
SadChan🍉🍉
its just wierd to not call it genocidee I think
SadChan🍉🍉
its like if you said "Im 99% sure the holocaust happened"
>>196401
SadChan🍉🍉
why would you say 99%
SadChan🍉🍉
what are you saying by leaving room for doubt lol
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196381↪
yea I think at that point its just semantics like we all agree the spaniards were evil colonialists.
>>196387
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196386↪
maybe. i think ethnic cleansing is more accurate tho
oh yeah i agree they're colonialists, i think i said it a long time ago
>>196388
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196387↪
>thnic cleansing
i dont think people usually make a big distinction between the word genocide and ethnic cleansing like
>>196392
SadChan🍉🍉
there is the UN stages of genocide or w/e
SadChan🍉🍉
it still genocide if you do like what russia did in ukraine in the 1930-80s. ban speaking ukrainian, force the teaching of russian in schools, ban ukrainian cultural expression. you are extirpating the culture to make them russian. its a genocide, and that ban is usually enforced through indiscriminate violence.
SadChan🍉🍉
u can also do a genocide by forced migration, which spain did too. moving tons of spanish indentured workers into these countries to take over and be a higher caste to the natives nad have htem interbreed and stuff and if they get spanish blood in them there is no longer a purely native population. (WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY DIFFERENT FROM JUST NORMAL MIGRATION AND INTERBREEDING BEFORE ANY NAZIS APPEAR AND START TALKING ABOUT WHITE GENOCIDE I SWEAR 2 GOD)
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
like i said before, despite all this, i don't think they were trying to lead them to extinction
SadChan🍉🍉
well, I dont th ink the british or french were either
>>196399
SadChan🍉🍉
Like the british wanted to displace mostly not kill and often employed tribes in their wars and the french even gave citizenship to natives in a lot of their colonies
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196394↪
i mean, the difference is that the british actually did it regardless of their intentions... like even if we focus in this just "small" tribe, the yuki people, they ended up extinguishing them
>>196403
SadChan🍉🍉
America kind of operates differently where its more like modern isreal where you have an incroaching of homesteaders and slowly pushing hte populations out and putting them in reservations and buildng walls around them
anon
i think people doing genocide rarely come out and say "I'm doing a genocide im trying to kill all of you on the basis of your ethnicity" so i think it's weird to require that to make the discussion
>>196405
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196399↪
you are never going to convince that the spanish didnt eradicate hundreds of small tribes in their conquest of the americas
>>196404
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196403↪
honestly, i find it hard to believe too. i'd like to investigate a bit more and see if there's at least a single tribe or ethnic group that got extinct during the spanish colonization and if i find it then yeah i would agree they commited genocide
>>196406
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196404↪
the thing that makes it really difficult was that the spanish expanded MUCH BIGGER AND FASTER than the british and french. the project of spanish colonialism was on a much huger scale than the way british people did it which was mor elike the portuguses feitorias. they british built city states in key areas and traded or farmed around them. the spanish did wholesale cultural replacement. the spanish project was much grander in scale and scope and happened about a hundred years before the british or french really got started in north america. so the spanish didnt really need to distinguish between all these tiny tribes because they are all just targets for extermination/conversion. like the incas themselves ruled over dozens of tribes we no longer know the names of. all we know is the incas and maybe 5 or 6 major cultural groups in this huge area. we dont know those tribes anymore and to the racist spanish they would all just be "Inka" and get thrown onto the hacienda, enslaved and forced to convert to following jesus or get tortured by the inquisition.
>>196418
anon
i just think it's a weird line to draw in the sand like i don't understand the motivation to protect unambiguously evil racist people from a label that calls them evil and racist
>>196408
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
but words have meanings
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196410↪
that's fair but as far as i know i can't say the same
anon
ok well thats concerning to me
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
so?
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
i mean what do i do with that info
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
like i don't wanna be a dick here i just think words have meaning and if i wanted to call them evil i'd just do that
anon
integrate it into the collective feedback on your psyche that ghe universe gives you and maybe if 50 other people say the same u will reconsider it? i dunno, what is anyone supposed to do with anything said on the internet. it's all inherently a bit vacuous and inane
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196406↪
i mean yeah it has to be more difficult but not impossible. and it's one of the most documented periods of history so i'm sure there must be something out there in the internet
anon
idk i just think u should be careful with how u make that argument bc some people are gonna see you say "spanish colonialism wasnt genocidal" and hear that as "spanish colonialism was good" because i think a lot of the people making the first point are making the second point too
>>196420
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196419↪
i can't and should be responsible of other people lacking of reading comprehension
>>196423
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
shouldn't* hehe
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
like yeah i get what you mean but if i say i like apples and somebody gets mad because some people who like apples also hate oranges i shouldn't be tell i can't say i like apples
anon
>>196420↪
i dunno, the world is imperfect. if someone says, i dunno "trans women shouldnt be in womens bathrooms" im gonna assume theyre transphobic. am i wrong to do that? im working with what ive been presented..but maybe they are actually making the nuanced case that we should have protected bathrooms and bathrooms shouldnt be gendered in the first place, because we have a unique danger in that situation. theres not always the time of day to tell everyone your full thoughts
>>196424
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196423↪
we had this convo before and i think ur on ur right to avoid that person if that's a discussion that you find problematic or hard to have for one reason or another but that doesn't mean u should jump to conclusions out of nowhere
like here i'm not saying the equivalent to "trans women shouldn't be in womens bathrooms"
>>196427>>196430
anon
>>196424↪
i don't think thats a conclusion out of nowhere. you have to make conclusions about the world you simply cant know everything about every situation before you judge it. unless you wanna go be a monk and take alms or something. In the real world you have to make judgements
anon
an offhand remark is often what it takes for people to make those judgements
anon
>>196424↪
i mean i think it sort of is equivalent tho, in that the majority of people making the point that it want genocide are in support of evil amoral stuff. I dont think you support those things, but your position, taken alone in a vacuum, suggests you might be. thats all im sayin
>>196436
SadChan🍉🍉
damn encomienda wasnt abolished in chile until the 1780s
>>196432
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
like it was still just spain
SadChan🍉🍉
The way we talk about the encomienda system in academia is like... its literally the most effective way of commiting genocide ever invented lol
SadChan🍉🍉
in fact, im pretty sure the term genocide was literally invented to describe the encomienda system
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196430↪
if u wanna jump to that conclusion it's fine, like, i can live the rest of my life with that info but ur wrong at the end of the day
anon
okay but be fr for a sec. lets say you have a coworker and you barely talk to them ever. and one day you overhear them on the phone saying "trans women shouldnt be in womens bathrooms". are you going to give them the benefit of the doubt and just assume they are making a really nuanced point about the danger trans people face?
>>196440
SadChan🍉🍉
I looked it up, the guy who invented the word genocide invented it for the Armenian genocide, but he also wrote about the encomiendas and called it "par excellance of genocide"
>>196443
SadChan🍉🍉
so the actual inventor of the word considered it genocide xD
>>196443
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196437↪
i mean u might not believe me but yeah i wouldn't assume they're transphobic
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
why wouldn't apply the logic i think ppl should apply on me with other ppl
SadChan🍉🍉
> Denial toward accusations of genocide
Denial towards accusations of genocide linked to the encomienda and the Spanish conquest and settlement of the Americas typically involve arguments like those of Noble David Cook, who posits that accusations of genocide are a continuation of the Spanish Black Legend. Writing about the Black Legend and the conquest of the Americas, Cook wrote, "There were too few Spaniards to have killed the millions who were reported to have died in the first century after Old and New World contact" and instead suggests the near total decimation of the indigenous population of Hispaniola as mostly having been caused by diseases like smallpox. He argues that the Spanish unwittingly carried these diseases to the New World.[40] However, there is growing evidence that purposefully infecting Indigenous populations was not an obscure policy, being attempted multiple times across the Americas. With the American Society of Microbiology stating that "[the settlers demonstrated] depraved indifference, if not intentional genocide".[41]

theres actually a wikipedia article on spanish genocide denialism. apparenlty its a pretty common thing, kind of like how we americans have slavery and native genocide revisionism.
anon
i mean by the same logic do you think elon musk wasnt sig heiling because he insists he wasnt
>>196447
anon
do you think hes not a nazi until he comes on stage and says "i am a supporter of the historic national socialist party of germany in the 1930s-40s"
>>196447
SadChan🍉🍉
not the hes just a special autistic birthday boy argument
>>196451
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196449↪
no i'm not saying that i'm saying i just dunno for certain that he's a nazi
he knew what he was doing, he's just also stupid
>>196453
SadChan🍉🍉
he knew wtf he was doing
SadChan🍉🍉
>>196451↪
i do think its kind of a watering down of calling him a nazi, hes just a racist, transphobe, white supremacist, fascist
>>196456
anon
im kinda speechless to be tbh
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
>>196453↪
i think it was part of the power trip
like he knew he was gonna get away with it and his people was gonna love him, so he did it
nadie :3!x9xp7N8Vkc
honestly the nazi salute is not even the most nazi thing he's ever done
being born in South Africa in a wealthy family during the apartheid is
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