it's over

I probably need like a tenured ethical philosophy mega phd to teach me how to be a brother romantic partner

>what *is* a hamburger
>???????
>incest thought experiment
ok

it would make me feel sad to do it but I guess for enough pleasure and little enough torture. If the pain of the puppy is significantly less than the pleasure I gain by a large margin

>>396736
im just joshin x)
i actually really like ethic thought experiment
people squirm its fun

I would honestly have consentual sex with any relative who wanted it and it seemed likely to work out but I'm not going to be the one to ask

>>396740
No but it is to me because of my lifestyle causes me to get hurt from them less, so I try to avoid it but it makes me so happy to cause them suffering by eating meat, until I can be a happy vegan I ignore it :<

>>396732
i would not
that would be really sad and sadistic

#write did utilitarians invent poorhouses

no, utilitarians didn't invent poorhouses. poorhouses (or workhouses) existed long before utilitarianism as a formal philosophy. they were more a product of early capitalist economies, religious charity structures, and feudal poor laws.

jeremy bentham, a famous utilitarian, did advocate for things like prisons and workhouses as part of his panopticon idea to maximize efficiency in punishment/reform. but he didn’t invent the concept—poor relief systems were already around. utilitarians just applied their logic of "greatest happiness" to existing institutions, sometimes backing reforms that were harsh by modern standards.

so nah, they weren't the origin, just folks who tried to justify/optimize what was already there. did utilitarians invent poorhouses

regular with an emphasis on the negative to the degree it looks like negative

so suffering is worth like 5 times the value of pleasure

but suffering is still justified by pleasure

2 seemed too small 10 seemed too big

>>396755
no i would just be really sad torturing a puppy

#write how to have good sex with an ethical philosopher? I'm not picky but I want them to be respectful and nice and I'm not attractive myself either

focus on open communication and mutual respect. start by discussing boundaries and interests beforehand—consent is key, especially with someone who spends their time thinking about ethics. be honest about your own insecurities; they'll probably appreciate the transparency. if they're a good philosopher, they should value sincerity over superficial attractiveness. aim for reciprocity and active listening, both in and out of the bedroom. also, don't overthink it—just because they analyze morality doesn’t mean sex has to be an existential debate. keep it simple, attentive, and caring. how to have good sex with an ethical philosopher? I'm not picky but I want them to be respectful and nice and I'm not attractive myself either

>>396765
yeah but i dont do it so its okay :)

>>396770
we're on a liberal politics website what do you expect

>>396772
i like your little trap though im going to use that to great effect in group chats thank you

fork bomb for facebook messenger groups

>>396751
#write how did utilitarians want poorhouses to be more 'morally efficient'

utilitarians saw poorhouses as a way to enforce moral discipline while minimizing suffering—cheap but harsh enough to discourage dependency. they pushed for work requirements and strict conditions to incentivize labor but opposed outright cruelty since it created unnecessary pain. "less eligibility" was key: life inside had to be worse than the worst available job outside. efficiency wasn’t just about cost-cutting, but shaping behavior through calculated discomfort. how did utilitarians want poorhouses to be more 'morally efficient'

>>396779
i dont ever argue about stuff like that so its all new to me shug

i really had to think of the word to use at the end there and landed on dale gribble wife

>>396763
only neg utilitarianism grrr

>>396783
I'm not being facetitious. I literally would eat a human baby that was already dead if it was in the room right now with us. I wouldn't torture a puppy but I absolutely defend animal research and would help them cut one open if I was in the room with them and it was for a good cause

>>396788
ALL meat requires the premature execution of an animal. That's what slaughter is. The only relevant question is 'was the life we created worth living' or not. If the suffering of the animal outweighs its pleasure and the pleasure it creates, that is wrong. If not, not.

>>396791
They do, and they see their pets as way too special too. If I ever get a dog, the second it has an expensive medical problem, I'm putting it down and getting another from the shelter.

>>396792
eating less meat keeps your head in the game and reduces the power of those working against it. I try to reduce my meat intake somewhat. I would still be fine with meat eating, even of people, if it were of net positive utility though.

>>396794
>society would have to change
thats still a system, then

>>396799
yep which makes it less profitable

>>396782
I wish all men looked like this handsome..

>>396799
i get the rabbit hole this will go down
whats the conclusion you generally want to reach with this

like explain your ideal scenario

>>396802
I value both.Human suffering makes me more uncomfortable and sad, because of my imagination, but I think reduction of other suffering and creation of pleasure justifies suffering

i think the meat thing is predicated on like
the 'torture' part isnt it ?

market blah blah demand blah blah worse conditions balh something else

>>396811
yeah

there are probably ways to produce meat in a way that isnt torturous right

>>396806
You view it as fascisious because you're not willing to confront the neccesary harshness of life. My death will involve agony most likely, because I am not planning to kill myself in a kind way, so even if it's in the hospital, to get there there will be a painful acident. I accept that as the cost for living longer. It isn't neccesary to snap puppies necks today to feel good, but if it were, we would. It isn't neccesary to eat babies to feel good and get meat, but if it were, we could find a way to farm them more efficiently

>>396816
its like talking to davesprite about politics

>>396818
To live it is, yes. To have children it is, yes. Because we are animals. and we will inevitably suffer

>>396813
but this is what matters, alongside preventing a slide into negative utilitarian lives of animals to benefit us

>>396822
That should be one of many objectives. Collective suicide is the way to minimize it, as well as creating a grey goo to prevent life emerging elsewhere

I don't want a morally ethical extinction because I'm not a negative utilitarian. I think suffering should be prioritized in elimination, but I value pleasure and see suffering as justified by pleasure.

Yes

From an outside perspective, yes, if it's great enough. That's the same thing as saying 'is it ok to work to have money and enjoy that money.'
the working self suffers, the money self is better off.
from my own perspective, I fear my own pain more than anything, so if it was a button to press once, I'd be brave and press it, but if I had to hold down the button I'm getting out of there ASAP

Most states implicitly do that by failing to fund birth incentives for really stupid ugly people no one wants to breed with, and providing limited resources to healthcare. Yes, but it's depressing, and often ends badly.

How are they excesses? would it be moral for a person who could give their life to save thousands from poverty to gain life by casting them into it?
Would it be moral for someone who could have a wonderful happy life with just an hour of torturous pain to kill themself instead of undergoing it?
These are the flipped versions of your questions.
Now, torture, purges, these things are usually bad, but not because they are 'bad utilitarianism,' but because they are not usually actually functional. Having sex with your cousin often ends badly, harmeless fun with drugs often ends badly, purges often end badly, animals without power over their situation, whose incentives do not reward their good care often end badly. This doesn't mean it wouldn't be justified to take these actions if they actually worked, but it isn't justified to do things which aren't actually likely to be utilitarian over the whole system, even if they appear locally or imediately utilitarian

#smartai how come trans people with mental disabilities are treated with so much cruelty and contempt???

The cruelty and contempt directed toward transgender individuals with mental disabilities stem from intersecting systems of oppression, including ableism, transphobia, and structural discrimination. These marginalized groups face compounded stigmatization due to pervasive societal biases that devalue both neurodivergence and gender nonconformity.

### **1. Structural Ableism & Pathologization**
Historically, mental disability has been weaponized to invalidate trans identities under the false assumption that gender dysphoria is inherently pathological or delusional—a notion rejected by major medical organizations like the American Psychiatric Association (APA) and World Health Organization (WHO). When trans people also have documented psychiatric conditions (e.g., autism, schizophrenia), bigots exploit this overlap to delegitimize their autonomy under paternalistic rhetoric ("they can't consent"). This denies them agency while reinforcing harmful stereotypes about disabled people being incapable of self-determination.

### **2. Transmisogyny & Compounded Marginalization**
Trans women—particularly those with intellectual/developmental disabilities—face heightened violence due to transmisogynistic tropes equating femininity with deceit or instability. Disabled trans men are similarly infantilized as "confused" rather than affirmed in their identities. The intersection of disability + queerness exacerbates vulnerability: studies show increased rates of abuse in institutional settings where caregivers may enforce rigid cisheteronormativity through coercion or neglect.

### **3. Institutional Neglect & Carceral Violence**
Many disabled trans individuals experience systemic abandonment within healthcare, prisons, group homes, and shelters where staff lack competency in both disability justice *and* LGBTQ+ care. Forced psychiatric interventions (e.g., conversion therapy masked as "treatment") remain prevalent for neurodivergent trans youth/adults deemed "irrational." Meanwhile carceral systems disproportionately criminalize mentally ill queer/trans folks instead of providing support—leading to cycles of trauma via policing/hospitalization without informed consent protections.

### **4. Dehumanizing Rhetoric from Anti-Trans Movements**
Reactionary factions deliberately frame transgender existence as a symptom of psychosis/social contagion (“rapid-onset gender dysphoria”), leveraging ableist fearmongering about “mentally ill groomers.” Such propaganda justifies stripping rights under guise(s) such as:
- Banning transition-related care for autistic minors (*see: UK’s Tavistock backlash*)
- Restricting legal recognition unless deemed cognitively “competent” by prejudiced evaluators

This creates Catch-22 scenarios wherein affirming one's identity becomes contingent on performing normative rationality—an impossible standard weaponized against multiply-marginalized communities who defy simplistic binaries around cognition/gender alike!

---

#### **Conclusion:** Liberation requires dismantling overlapping hierarchies enforcing compulsory sanity *and* cisness simultaneously! Solidarity between movements must center those most impacted: advocating not just policy reform but cultural shifts rejecting eugenicist logic which predicates humanity on perceived coherence/conformity alone! how come trans people with mental disabilities are treated with so much cruelty and contempt???

>>396838
Societies which propegated themselves evolved to hate those who don't massively contribute or have children : (

and also probably people did too

>>396839
i heard of a rather famous disabled trans person who managed to get a single gender affirming surgery and the abletist transphobes were rabid with rage over it

this person got the surgery at like 18 and they were infanilizing a transgender adult who got surgery due to them being disabled

>>396844
Oh thats something that ends in a type of cism

>>396836
So if you're not a utilitarian you would tolerate massive pain or deny massive pleasure just for your moral framework?

>>396844
They evolved to. Sour grapes also. Also it's reasuring to have a next generation

>>396844
all the most famous big money transphobes seem to um, have like you know the whole white extinction anxiety stuff going on, and it translates to lgbt=bad t=especially bad

>>396836
So maybe it was good, but it's still rather pointless. also killed lots of intelligent people probably making the future worse, and normalized brutality, also making things worse

>>396850
either that or prevent the white supremacists from having children at all

>>396850
I agree everyone should be the same race. It's ridiculous we go 'oh tee hee people deserve to have children who will look different from the others and be othered and people will have to constantly check themselves mentally to go against their instincts to be afraid of different looking people.' and culture being a thing you get by nature of who you were born to- like slavery. It should be chosen.

The problem is there's a lot of like, multigenerational wealth which is largely based on race, and ethnic white babies make certain people a lot of money

>>396841
horrible case. If they were rich and had children though it would be a better own, because the transphobes would gradually go away, since everyone caters to the powerful

so its really hard to code the recurring problem away

>>396847
That sounds rather horrible though. Can you tell us about your framework?

>>396859
it was a trans man from what i remembered a young adult trans man (not a child) who had surgery, and ableist transphobes everywhere were butthurt about it

>>396852
ooooh I wanna pick them and make jam : )

>>396854
If spain was a super successful nation from this, I'd agree, but I think since they're kinda losers and it dovetails into their problems which appear even today, it was bad

>>396864
You have to derive the principles from somewhere, which is ultimately going to be 'lol idc' or utilitarianism

>>396853
You still need to prevent pure other races from having children too though, and ironically cause all the white people to have children with the other races, which ironically would probably result in more white DNA overall, since there are more nonwhites than whites as I understand it, so most of the surplus unable to breed will be I think asian

>>396869
>>396871
I mean I think the white supremacy thing is so bad that even like very distant white ancestry could be something people harm each other over, as in if you get rid of "highly white" people there will be "slightly white" white supremacists, so, simply ending everything to do with "white lineage" might be the most surefire way to end the white supremacy problem

>>396857
adoption agencies? Who makes money on them?

>>396862
afabs often get infantalized
again because it was a fit trait. only way out is for doing so to be less rewarded than not doing so

>>396873
well stuff like, the price of adopting a white baby is higher than the prices of other babies, and ethnic white sons usually make the most money when they grow up and stuff so its a really hard problem to make stop

>>396865
that's so nice : ) I painted a birdhouse for my mom and we put it up today but she never has energy for things

whats really weird and telling is how many people want to have ethnic white american babies but these people you know, are anti immigration and umm don't want brown americans having babies either

>>396870
people like virtue ethics because they associate virtues with feeling good/not feeling bad ; ) dunno anything about deonteology

>>396871
I really wonder if what china is doing to their westerners is the right thing to do. Yes it's terrible now but being a united people it a good thing probably for the rest of time.

it really is weird thinking about it, the umm the whole obsession with white babies thing, in hindset i feel like ive seen aspects of it my entire life but didnt know how bad it was until um this year

>>396872
This is just a race to breed the 'nonwhitest' people though right? I think just making everyone the same is better. Ideally we'd all just wear VR headsets and make everyone a cute anime girl IMO

>>396890
well i have a different idea thats far more theoretical, it would involve a time machine, going to europe, and changing history so that modern europeans never got the light skinned gene expression 8000 years ago

it was approximately 8 thousand years ago pale skin became common in europe, so if you had a time machine maybe you could make things go differently

>>396874
I don't actually care about genocide in itself. Disabled genocide is constantly occuring by people not wanting to have children with the disabled, and it being harder for them to be parents. It's the atrocities which come along with it which are bad

>>396895
well my fellow anon there's a major difference between someone simply not wanting disabled people like myself from reproducing, and wanting to like lobotomize us and send us to institutions and stuff

>>396876
just make everyone an ethnic white at birth and they can wear makeup if they want problem solved

>>396900
it would be interesting if someone with no ethnic white ancestry could become ethnic white through adoptation and have children with someon with no ethnic white ancestry, and basically they have the privilege but without the dna or ancestry of whiteness

by interesting i mean i think that would probably never happen more unlikely than my time travel plan

>>396877
have people varie based on what they think is good and choose to join, not their ancestry

>>396887
I think you're also picking up on the side-order effects which come from brutality too. If there was a button I could press to make everyone the same race and gender (without rendering people infertile, probably just give them both genitals) right now, I would press it, but forcing things on people causes a culture of brutality, etc

who won the debate

i went to make food but anons were talking about vegan or something

>>396897
tru I want you to have a happy life though I actually don't want anyone to grow up disabled in a harmful way, and I wish the severely disabled were selected against as embryos and replaced with those who can be happier

>>396911
nice !

>>396911
(who was that)

>>396918
ohhh yeah i forgot that was you wasnt it

diminish was fun but i lost the plot after a while

>>396896
I don't really want to die fighting for the uigers/tibetans when I haven't had children myself, and having everyone as seperate peoples where I'm not supposed to identify with them, and they will other me, but I'm supposed to fight for their rights doesn't really make sense. I think we should respect minorities but everyone should generally be on a path to mixing. It should be frowned on to only breed with a small minority, perhaps the government should expand incest law to say you can't marry anyone say 10 generations from you

none of this would be going on right now, if it weren't for some really weird men of a certain ethnic background who have a blatant breeding fetish, as in the white supremacy epidemic in the usa

>>396899
I don't really care about whether something is 'natural' but not interfered with or manmade. Poor health outcomes in poor communities may be natural for instance becaus of worse resources, or caused by the dump being nearby.
So I think white genocide is fine, if the genes are dying.

>>396934
oh no these weird people hate jewish people part of their white supremacy thing

it really is like an ethnic white breeding fetish, and beyond doing something about the inequal money problem i don't know how to make it go away, it's been a serious issue for over 400 years and still shows no signs of going away

>>396905
yes exactly! also children shouldn't be under the control of their parents financially, which traps them in that mindset. They should just have their own lil apartment from the government

>>396941
frfrfr if you love a kid and want to take care of them you can do that as a consentual relationship, not owning them

I think that might be the most harmful kink in the world, the fetish for having ethnic white babies. This fetish has seriously gotten out of hand and is wrecking the world no joke. It even largely controls how money and the law works.

>>396912
nazi germany was attacking others because they were different though. You only don't like them because they were the same against different people. If everyone in the world looked like them what power would they have had?

Just think about all the terrible dead people who did terrible things together, and many still alive, and how weird it is, imagine you find out all day every day theyre thinking about white infants its cringe and weird as hell

>>396931
It is lol probably increase it my one generation each generation

>>396950
How would they have a distinct german identity? Looking different is a huge part of it

ok but all the poles just say 'yeah I'm a danzig german lmao'

true true such as in yugoslavia where i think it was cultural too

>>396956
It's on its way ngltbh. mass media

#smartai talk about how incredibly cringe it is that numerous dead authority figures and present day right wingers litterally have a fetish for white babies, and how cringe it is that 24/7 they have ethnic white babies on their mind, and how cringe it is that their deepest fantasy is having tons of ethnic white babies

The fixation on demographic reproduction—specifically the propagation of "ethnic white babies"—among certain ideological factions is not merely cringe-worthy but a deeply unsettling manifestation of racialized anxiety and ethnonationalist paranoia. This phenomenon, often couched in euphemistic terms like "demographic preservation" or "cultural continuity," reveals an obsessive preoccupation with whiteness as a quantifiable commodity rather than an incidental trait.

Historically, this obsession can be traced to pseudo-scientific 19th- and early 20th-century racial theories (eugenics, Nordicism) that pathologized declining birth rates among white populations while framing non-white fertility as an existential threat. Figures like Madison Grant (*The Passing of the Great Race*, 1916) and contemporary ideologues who echo his rhetoric exhibit what sociologists term *reproductive futurism*—a belief that political legitimacy hinges on producing more children from a narrowly defined ingroup.

What makes this particularly pathological is its reduction of human beings to mere vessels for racial purity—an absurd biological determinism oblivious to centuries of migration, assimilation, and genetic admixture ("ethnic whiteness" itself being a fluid construct). The modern far-right's conflation of infant production with civilizational survival betrays not just intellectual bankruptcy but also Freudian-grade neuroses: latent fears of displacement, sexual inadequacy projected onto entire populations, and fetishistic overvaluation of phenotypic traits.

Moreover, their discourse often ignores material realities (economic precarity delaying parenthood globally) in favor of melodramatic panic about "white extinction." That such movements hinge on natalist fanaticism—while opposing policies enabling actual families (childcare subsidies, parental leave)—exposes their true priority: not thriving children per se but racially curated ones.

In sum: yes,*cringe* barely begins to cover it when grown adults fixate on other people’s uteri as battlegrounds for imaginary race wars instead engaging substantive societal challenges . talk about how incredibly cringe it is that numerous dead authority figures and present day right wingers litterally have a fetish for white babies, and how cringe it is that 24/7 they have ethnic white babies on their mind, and how cringe it is that their deepest fantasy is having tons of ethnic white babies

>>396954
so cute tho

>>396959
If to have diverse opinions people need different appearances, I suppose that suggests policies of its own

>>396970
But it was said that people who all look the same would get trapped in one culture which goes against there being german speakers of danzig

>>396974
#smooch i luv u too
>>396975
#smooch and u

>>396979
#smooch #smooch #smooch

ur green dress and pink scarf are sill pretty

#dumbai ralsei from deltarune lol

oh yea ralsei!! he the fluffy boi from deltarune right?? i think hes like a prince or sumthin but he wear a dumb hat lol. hes all nice n stuff but sum ppl say he sus... idk y tho. also his name is an anagram for "asriel" which is like asriel from undertale but i dunno if that means anythin. maybe hes just a goat who likes hugs and bein friends with kris n susie. also his scarf is pink i think?? or is it green... idk colors hard ralsei from deltarune lol

>>396977
Ironically i think this is true but people thing they're 'italian amerian' when really they're 'upper

idk colors hard

Ironically i think this is true but people thing they're 'italian amerian' when really they're 'upper class northeastern american' in terms of the different cultures

There may have been a time when people were 'italian of chicago american' but generally that is passed and now it's 'south side white of chicago' american

>>396982
I'm lonely af can we? We could go for walks together and ... stuff ... ...

>>396992
your fetish is extremely based compared to people who have the ethnic white baby fetish at least

>>396994
are you gonna freak out on me when ur an hrt fem man and we're 40 and I still wanna cuddle u?

>>396998
:3 I'm gonna be looking forward to it cutie

I'd like to have kids tho :<

>>397003
#smooch #smooch #smooch

I was only helping you maintain your harem rose like a loyal court eunuch

>>396996
itd be a lot funnier if people with white baby feverv wrre living in poveryy and had no politiocal power then itd be pretty funny

>>396996
It does get pretty funny. I want to introduce more blackface/yellowface/whiteface to the raceplay fetish and make it even more cartoonish and have them sing wildly offensive songs while fucking each other

[pumping] damn girl our baby is going to get sunburn so hard
come on

#dumbai is cum political

uhhh i dunno man like cum is just cum right? but some ppl say its political cuz like... idk maybe if u think about who gets to cum or sumthin? or like how ppl talk about it? but also its just sticky stuff so maybe not. i heard sumone say its abt power but i wasnt really listenin. politics is confusing and so is cum tbh. is cum political

NEED minstrel bf while I'm in yell

NEED bf to put on a minstrel show while getting himself hard while I'm in yellowface and do a sexualized tea ceremony while worshiping his pp and using engrish before we switch halfway through and I'm the cute black lady and he's an irish leprochaun

hello nona

>>397018
#reply

got it, zero minstrel shit here. not tryna get doxxed lmao.

>>397018
^

>>397022
a lot of em apparently had good relationships with the black performers though and I think I recall some who stood up for black ppl, when you actually enjoy being a black character over and over it's hard to be mean

trve

No but there's a channel you can broadcast on nona!

The normal walkie talkie one

I read it in the baofeng reviews on amazon

can't you adjust the powah?

>>397028
oh my god baofeng friend hello

also I think they don't care on the walkie talkie freq

>>397033
do it anyway i do it all the time the fcc sucks and hams are assholes

(just not at your house)

>>397026
#kiss such a thoughtful husband..

>>397043
YES!!!! Then I'm masturbating in thne corner as an alien that killed JFK and I have a headless JFK maniqin I fukk

>>397048
#smooch such a lovely thoughtful wife...

waow I wish I could do that for you back...

>>397038
i think they only allow alternating between 5w and 1w transmission
1w is still 'over the limit' technically for unlicensed use on the regular walkie freqs
except in some specific gmrs range ? idr anymore

oh boy chat I GOTTA have sex one partner is jesus the other is muhamed

>>397056
good if that's good I wanted to hear about you using it

>>397060
noooo >< I feel so guilty depicting myself.... but for you jesus... I need you... But I know a lot more than you... lemee reveal it to you... *sex*

>>397058
bazed

>>397065
oh I wanted you to get to us