I found this tumblr post the other day basically calling hdg fans manchildren, im still kinda seething abt it

https://www.tumblr.com/harbinger-of-the-defiled-heiress/780196718697414656?source=share

>>266916
>wouldn't it be cooler if you featured slave labor in your fictional post-scarcity society
urghhhh

>>266916
>You'll need to be on Tumblr to see this particular blog

>>267525

>>266916
kink is so hard to pin down that people can really easily hate and excuse it with flimsy support. like "hdg is just like asking the dom to do everything" is a fair criticism from some that's never read any hdg, or has read it but is arguing in bad faith. it *could* be that, but it's not. at least for the most part. look what you did, now i'm seething too. are you happy?

i need an hdg rimworld mod that plays like divaricated

QOTT:

Affini:
How would you comfort a floret whose favorite show was cancelled?

Florets:
How does your owner make you feel better when you have sad thoughts about the past?

Independents:
Would you consider seeing a vet to help you stop caring about something or someone you miss? Do you ever think about the friends you lost between human domestication and now?

Feralists:
Have you ever considered the consequences for others of your choice to be angry and miserable all the time?

>>272177
>How does your owner make you feel better when you have sad thoughts about the past?
she reminds me that things are better now. i don't have to worry about those sad thoughts from my past life before she found me and rescued me from having to be independent. things are better with mommy, she takes care of me. sometimes she takes me to go get ice cream or to have a floret sleepover with some of my friends and it helps remind me just how different things are from when i was so sad

also nectarmilk breastfeeding, but only if i'm really good

do the people here know there is also a bunker thread on 8chan?

>>277368
i actually found that one before i visited this place at all yeah

>>277368
where

>>266916
can someone archive or screenshot this or something, i can't be bothered to make an account to read it

>>278227
I don't really get what they are whining about tho. It's clearly written by subs who want that. it's wish fulfilment

>>277999
8chan.moe on the /trash/ board

>>278086
it's struggling with the extra traffic atm. give it till tomorrow morning they're supposed to be updating their equipment tn

>>278435
It's dead again...

>>278920
yeah. splitting such a tiny community between two bunkers seems like a bad idea, though. maybe i should link this thread there?

okay i read human domestication guide up to the third chapter and then i got bored

>>279069
If you can that would be nice. I think I like it better here too.

are you sure everyone there would even care about this site/want to come here

>>279677
It doesn't stand out at all.

>>279873
most of them are /tttt/ anons I think? it come from lgbt in the first place
but this place isn't supposed to allow nsfw, then again nothing in that thread is even explicit so

>>279968
i guess
i just think its at least good to place some roots down (lol) on other sites just in case this one goes down too

>>280276
i hope not
are you guys equipped to handle a full scale sharty raid? theyve taken a few altchans down that way, i feel like this sites strength rn is its extreme obscurity
still tho its worrying that /tttt/ only has one bunker not counting reddit when most strong communities have several
sry for being alarmist tho

>>266282
I don't think you need to do covert ops for /hdgg/ here lol
unless the mods are the same as he last place?

>>280473
Those losers are trying to sabotage everyone else too now? Just why

>>280518
theyve been doing it for a looong time, way before the 4ch hack
its practically site culture (that and doxing random people)

>>272343
well

>>280473
They only got 4 down because 4 was literally running decade-old code with no security updates. As long as a site isn't run by idiots, these kids can't do much worse than a ddos.

Sigh... seriously, guys? A fucking HDG thread?

I just... wish HDG and 4tran didn't have such a large overlap, because it's... such a horrid setting.

>>281098
yeah 4ch was the only real time they actually "killed" a site but usually what they do is they just raid & make it unusable until the act of maintaining the site is too much for the owners
this site might end up in their crosshairs if they find out abt it and become inundated with spam

>>272177
anyway,
>have you ever considered the consequences for others of your choice to be angry and miserable all the time?
Yes. That's why I hide my anger and misery from everyone and will promptly kms if my cover is ever blown.

>>281254
there's been an HDG thread on 4chan for a little under... a year, maybe? it was banished from /lgbt/ after a few threads and lived on /trash/ after that. was moderately active.

>>281254
It creeped me out at first too, but after finding some interesting stories in the setting I'm into it as a sci-fi setting even if I'm not into the turbo-sub kink.

>>266282
glad to see that no matter the circumstances tttt’s hdg community remains indestructible

>>286767
one could say we’re impossible to get rid of… almost like a weed ;D

>>285122
owo

>>283787
I responded differently... personally, I wrote a massive hatefic.

But yeah, the scifi in the setting is pretty damn good. That's why I made some weird spinoffs.

>be floret, napping in your owner's vines
>she tells you you're going to get ice cream because you've been so good
>but all you've done today is lie quietly and get petted...
>she ignores your objections and takes you into town
>as you're thinking about your order, you see a... skeleton?
>he's really short and has weirdly wide hips, and you can guess what that means
>he sees you looking and comes over to talk with an affini tagging behind him
>apparently his world was used to being invaded so when the affini arrived to help they fought hard
>his brother was among the first captured, and his brother's best friend was there with him
>the battle didn't last long but the affini had to spend months cleaning up everyone who went into hiding
>the king (they had one, apparently) resisted hard but was inevitably beaten
>the royal scientist was dabbling in weaponizing the dead which traumatized quite a few affini
>their "superweapon" defected as soon as someone told him he'd be a hit on affini tv and he'd get a trillion views easily
>when they finished just about everyone else the affini finally reached this skeleton guy
>he was ready to fight too, but they explained they weren't killing anyone and offered him breakfast
>they didn't have to egg him on more than that!
>right...
>he says he's happy as a floret, not having to worry about boring things like cleaning up after pranking his brother
>he says everyone's living in the compact now except one weird flower guy they haven't been able to capture
>he keeps rewinding time to stop them from getting him or something, the explanation doesn't make much sense to you
>skeleton guy walks to the counter and asks for one of what you're having
>the cashier smiles and hands him an empty ice cream cone
>the skeleton looks confused than laughs and walks off nibbling at his dry breading
>huh
>but you know what you want to eat now!
>it's going to be so good!

>>291996
Undertale!

>>289863
Also I tend to prefer a somewhat fluffier view of the affini, where preservation of human culture when possible is at least of academic importance and randomly acquiring florets off the street is frowned upon.

>>292130
Nah, the shit they do is pretty nakedly evil. Ever read anything by SaphicSounds?

The Affini are orders of magnitude more powerful and intelligent than any human. Every domestication is akin to pedophilia or bestiality. Even if people were throwing themselves at the Affini (without any of the biorhythm stuff they use to attract them like flies), it would be the Affini's responsibility to reject them.

It's like how, if a middle school student wants to date their teacher, it's the teacher's responsibility to say no. And, no matter how enthusiastic the middle schooler's "consent" is, the difference in power and maturity makes true consent impossible.

>>292305
I did say "somewhat".

>>292390
fair tbh

>>292305
ok but this is not real though

>>292501
Fair. that’s ok if it’s just a kink and people are aware of it.

but there are people who say things like “god I wish the Affini came and fixed everything” and just portray them as amazing and benevolent. And that’s just not true. The Affini are evil and this setting is a dystopia. Sure, it’s a sexually exciting dystopia for some people, but it’s still a miserable dystopia that can ruin peoples’ psyche.

Especially given what *some* people do - talk about how they want the Affini to save them everhwhere where trans people exist, despite the fact that many are uncomfortable with them doing so, and not understanding them at all.

>>292305
>>292615
seeing anyone argue about the ethics of what is essentially plant alien mind rape porn (or just rape porn tbqh) is more amusing than the actual source material

>>293020
cringe

>>292615
I for one hope for a speedy arrival since I've thought about it and I'd genuinely be far better off.

>>293635
Live in a horrible dystopia without rights, or live in a horrible dystopia without rights in the body you'd be more comfortable in. I get where they're coming from.

tike

the0post0form0breaks0if0i0use0space0or0punctuation0but0im0here0a

>>295092
lurking0angel

>>295017
It's Neitzche's personal hell. How can you become the übermensch when self-control is practically criminalized? Also there's the problem of a type of drug that's described as "identity erasing and thought obliterating" that is entirely legal to use for "difficult cases". The fact that they aren't super banned paints the regime as extremely sinister.

>>295017
You're making my point for me.
You're forgetting that domestication is often done involuntarily and without consent.
Florets are quite literally described as property. And, to compound this, the fact that only an Affini is allowed to own a floret makes it racist. This is like JK Rowling's excuse that the house elves are happy being enslaved, so everything's all fine and dandy. Let's laugh at Hermione's attempt to call attention to the welfare of these people, because it "isn't actually bad".

The fundamental fact is that it's a surveillance state. Nobody is given any fundamental rights, like the right to autonomy and independence (considering that all enemy soldiers are domesticated), like the right to privacy, like the right to say what you want without consequences (even if it's harmless), and anybody who questions the state's legitimacy is disappeared and forcibly reeducated with drugs. Let's not even mention the biorhythms, which are designed to undermine peoples' psyches.

>no money, everything is free

So what if everyone's free when nobody is?

>magic space hrt that lets you have a body indistinguishable from a cis woman in a few weeks

Humanity's probably already come up with something better.

>a massive and peaceful empire spanning more distance than you could possibly comprehend that you're allowed to travel in freely

Peaceful? Frankly, domestication is an inherently violent endeavor. Just because they're good enough at war to make it a non-issue doesn't mean there's no violence.

> would you seriously choose to not live in the affini compact (if you had the choice) just because you might be taken in by an affini and loved more than you could imagine for the rest of your life?

God, this is why I hate the setting the most. It isn't a self-aware dark sex thing. It's something people genuinely argue for.

Yeah, I'd rather die than live in the HDG world. Better to be dead than to constantly experience powerlessness, aimlessness, and the fear of complete self-destruction at the hands of an esoteric rapist.

What the fuck is this conversation lol

>>295776
People applying reason to a coombrain fantasy.

sometimes i think of similar scenarios in terms of like. what if humans became the "cats" of a machine superintelligence, like cats are to us. like if something that thought in such terms would treat us with such kindness and nurture us because they loved us, to ease me out of the bad shapes i've been bent into from the circumstances of the imperfect world i've been put into

i guess narratively that's comparable to the "rogue servitors" of stellaris which are written in a varying number of ways ranging from lovely to sinister though the "a better world is NOT possible" types typically lean the latter which is kind of reflected here in terms of the fictions where the affini behave in a more sinister fashion

ultimately since it's largely an amalgam of themed fanon there's not really. "A" specific way the affini act but it's typically in a very benevolent way compared to, many other ways first contacts could go?

>>295629
Slavery is the ownership of people. No more, no less. Slavery is not the extraction of labor from people; it is ownership.

It isn't about material conditions; it's about power, it's about the ability to change things. That is what the Affini take from the species they domesticate.

It isn't an extreme version of safety standards -- especially because people are not allowed to commit suicide.

This argument is like "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear", and it might be true. But, nobody wants people staring intently at the porn they look at because it's private.

The right to privacy isn't because of how these searches can be abused. It's also about dignity.

Revoking the right to self-determination is also a problem in and of itself, in the same way. The problem is that humanity is at the Affini's mercy. The problem doesn't disappear just because they won't do it; the subservience is just problematic. End of story.

Personally, considering how we treat our pets, I'd much rather be dead than a pet. Dogs and cats are neutered without their permission or knowledge, medicine is just inserted into their food, their brains are hacked with simple reward schemes, and they're taught to do tricks whenever their owners want to be amused. There is no dignity in being a pet.

Besides, independents are kind of... forced to be happy. And an Affini can generally force an independent into florethood for the crime of being depressed, or autistic, or (from Independence is Easy), for simply doing something in their morning routine improperly.

The thing is, domestication is used as a cure-all condition, and an Affini who likes a particular person will try to turn them into their pet, regardless of their wishes. Need I mention biorhythms again?

At times in certain fanfics, people are reprimanded and their boundaries are violated for the simple crime of upsetting a floret by saying no to them.

Just, seriously, what the fuck?

Fictions i particularly liked/thought were cute:
Good Sensory (cute and nice fluff): https://archiveofourown.org/works/58671715/chapters/149498425
Saving a Stray (about saving a diyhrt permaboymoder from a death spiral of no health insurance and helping her blossom from her subdued self): https://archiveofourown.org/works/45378595/chapters/114171934

to be honest the discourse on "whether the affini are evil or not" seems like its a vague parallel to an ancient discourse of like. a decade+ prior, where there were a bunch of my little pony fanfictions about humans being turned into ponies systematically, usually because the earth was being destroyed for one contrived reason or another and only ponies being able to leave or whatever, and there being flame wars on if that was an evil thing to happen or not, the "conversion bureau"

it mostly stands out in my mind due to Jennifer Diane Reitz's (an og online trans woman) writing in that setting, especially since her work particularly centered the ways living among contemporary humanity tended towards cruelty - I wonder what she'd think of the HDG setting

>>297764
That's fine, as long as you concede that it's a dystopian horror setting. There's nothing saying that you can't enjoy it. I'm just asking for you to acknowledge that the setting is genuinely very problematic.

if superintelligent/superagentic aliens showed up and were benevolent, i'd like to be "uplifted" by them to be one of their peers, much as we envision uplifting other animals

and like. what if the human society sucks and needs to be toppled over because there's a lot of people trapped in there suffering for pointless reasons besides like. the personal schadenfreude for whoever's on top

though in the context of common hdg scenarios this is going from one shitty surveillance state to another shitty surveillance state, it doesn't really call into question like. the structural/hierarchical dangers of a society being set up like that, a regime change suddenly meaning that that data is now used to persecute/exterminate a demographic or whatever. but i guess it's part of the "extreme externalization of locus of control" aspect for the HDG setting so consequences like that typically aren't in scope

idk if there's a more general niche of fiction around the theming of exodus to a kinder alien culture

>>295322
The affini know how to manipulate people into thinking their interests are being served, they do not actually serve sapient life as a whole. Suffering is a key part of being human, pain spurs us to grow and change, florets are robbed of this and aren't even sober enough to recognize that anything is wrong. Make no mistake either, florets are inevitably turned into glassy-eyed drug addicts by their owners, it's only a matter of time before you take the first hit of alien heroin and the circular logic of "flort do thing > flort feel good > do thing more to flort" gets going.

"suffering is a key part of being human" is an ultracope platitude that only exists in a scenario where suffering is compulsory, but since wireheading is boring i am inclined to see the whole "compulsory xenodrug use" detail as undesirable, at least personally. It can be fun for some in a BDSM setting, which is a substantial aspect of what draws people to the scenario

>>298652
I agree, curiosity spurs me much more than anything else. Suffering makes me want to rot

>>295202
What reason would a human have to seek greater being? An affini owner could grant anything said human desires without hesitation. What room is there for progress? What morality is there to transcend when the affini already have no need of human morality? No ubermensch is needed when plommy cuddles all the scary feelings away.

>>296986
>Slavery is the ownership of people
Florets aren't people.

>>298947
curiosity and play drives me to seek improving my own faculties, so I can learn to see the world in a wide gamut of new ways! if i were without that i would wither like a creature in a confinement too small and unstimulating

>>298652
Lord of the Rings was in part inspired by Tolkien's experiences in the first world war, Neitzche's own works were written because of his deep fear of humanity's future. Think of how many songs are inspired from or about loss, how many authors or painters or musicians are or were troubled individuals,

>>299496
(continued)

>>298034
Yeah, that would be nice, but the Affini don't do that.

>>299496
people created moving works from experiences of strife != experiences of strife are necessary to create moving works

>>299551
the affini do whatever the author wants them to

>>298652
I mean, not really. Know the thing that gives you the desire to create and inspire and love?

It's actually called "boredom". A negative emotion.

If you will ever truly be at peace, you won't want to do anything. I mean, one of the main things that weed does is, it makes feeling bored okay. And, because of that, a lot of stoners experience stagnation where they're content just smoking weed and not doing anything in particular, consuming mildly stimulating content, not really talking to people much at all, and slowly wasting their lives away.

>>299496
>>299500
(CONTINUED)
and how they bled to make their works. There is a certain beauty in the pain, it is after all our most primal motivator to change. To remove it is to put a hole in the human soul.

>>299569
Possibly, but it is undeniable that many of our greatest works are written in blood. Besides, it is an aspect of our being, I think on some level we can't function without it. How can you have depth without light and shadow?

>>299616
draw from the madness of the waking dream

>>299271
Affini are very smart. They know that humans need lots of exciting things to do to stretch their adorably ruffly little brains. Just as pets need to be well fed and clean, they need to be entertained, something many humans seem to have difficulty understanding with their pets unfortunately. Wouldn't you want someone you could trust to help you find new interests to keep yourself stimulated?

>>298947
The Affini not considering florets to be people is called objectification (or depersonization, if you want a more general category). That's also really bad. I mean, it's still slavery; you can't just define them as not people.

Here's a question: Are independent humans people? If independent humans are people, but floreted humans aren't people, then domestication is literally murder (there once was a person, but there's no person anymore).

If independent humans aren't people, then that's literally just pretending that humans aren't people, and thus don't have moral standing. If you're willing to argue that, I'll concede, but only if you agree that it's okay for me to murder you in cold blood because you aren't a person.

>>299573
Nope, they can't violate the canon axioms, or it isn't HDG anymore :)

>>299644
sure, but uplifting doesn't seem like it falls outside of the canon axioms, and the axioms leave a lot of wiggle room for author interpretation anyhow

>>299633
>The Affini not considering florets to be people is called objectification
Humans are not affini and don't function as affini do. Without constant intervention, humans do anything they can to hamper their collective wellbeing. Even most affini aren't aware of how widespread philosophies like "liberterianism" and "liberalism" which both rely on the assumption that if a law is removed the act prohibited will simply never happen. Most humans lack the capacity to question a system different from that under which they live, even if they previously lived under others.
>Here's a question: Are independent humans people?
No, of course not.
>then that's literally just pretending that humans aren't people
Humans are not people. Personhood requires a level of capacity for introspection and compassion of which humans are not capable. Your very next sentence demonstrates that point better than I could. You believe it's acceptable to kill creatures that can feel pain and suffer as long as they aren't people. I don't believe any such thing, and any affini would be horrified by that sentiment.

>>299718
where would vegans fall in this spectrum of analysis

>>299632
I want to learn! I want to be taught! I want to grow! Grow vast and strange!

>>299644
>The Affini Are Inevitable
>The Affini Are Benevolent
>The Affini Are Imperialist
>The Affini Are Post-Scarcity
Protip: none of this exempts them from being evil

>>299836
none of this exempts them from being good, either! that's up to the author!

>>299731
An affini would probably appreciate your efforts but worry about your health.

>>299798
You've perhaps heard stories of affini domesticating planets. How about being turned into a slimegirl, where just like your owner you would have a core but the rest of you would be stretchable goo, perfect for hugging every crevice of an affini's vines? Putting yourself into a bathtub and your affini diving in and swimming around in you.
Would you prefer becoming a dryad floret, rooted to the rightful centre of your owner's garden and content to watch the lesser plants change and be replaced with the seasons? Providing shade for your owner to read and talk with friends as more fleeting florets race about them.
Or perhaps being relieved of mortality entirely and converted into a ship, a companion for your owner who would never be apart, able to watch at all times and see the true scale and grandeur of reality in a way others can't? Cruising between galaxies and meeting enough species you couldn't describe them all in a human lifetime, perhaps being given a fresh perspective when your mechanical life begins to feel stale.
There are many strange florets, and no shortage of affini eager to pamper them rather than the typical "i wanna be cat NYA".

>>299718
Sigh... must you be this thick-headed?

My point was, if it is wrong to murder a creature, it is also wrong to enslave it, regardless of your esoteric definition of "personhood". To say that enslaving a human being isn't real slavery is equivalent to insisting that killing a human being isn't murder.

>>300072
Slavery, imprisonment, rehabilitation - where would you draw the lines of each? Do you have criteria for when each category of treatment is acceptable depending on the behavior of the subject?

>>299935
#give

so this is the logical next step in the puppygirl pipeline, isn't it?
not that thats a bad thing..

>>301194
The categorical imperative and my own nature demands that I critique the ethics of gay plants

>type a careful reply
>go do something else before returning to spellcheck
>the reply is gone, lost forever
It's all so tiresome.

>>299935
There have to be tons of affini who want florets to infodump to about their latest obsession.

>>300072
Pets aren't slaves, they're pets. Letting them run around hurting themselves when they could be comfortably sleeping on someone's rug and being petted is the real crime. Poor little strays can hardly wash the mats out of their fur...

>>300082
Imprisonment is justified if there is a crime. Imprisonment is a punishment. Domestication is not defined as a punisment; it is given to the innocent and undeserving, often by force. Besides, once you serve your sentence, you go free. Imprisonment is not a valid description.

Rehabilitation does not necessitate that you become property and remain property for all eternity. Rehab staff do not own people who are in rehab. You do not stay in rehab your entire life.

If becoming a floret is not a punishment, why is it permanent? Why can the floret not demand the owner stop doing a thing that they dislike? Why do they make life-altering decisions while under the influence of drugs?

>>303416

Aside from the fact that keeping pets as we do is already unethical, and humans are too sapient to be pets, and that our dogs and cats are only dependent on us because we bred them that way…

If I raped the family dog, you’d have a lot of bad things to say about me, justifyably so.

>>303439
It is an interesting "reversal scenario" of what we do to other animals we keep as pets, and how we should consider our actions to our pets, comparable to a scenario where aliens show up to harvest us for our flesh to that of our system of eating other creatures at industrial scale

and on the other paw, to what extent would you consent to or reject changes applied to you - as a mirror to the hypothetical of uplifting dogs so they could participate in society at the level of a human, how would one feel about that? What kinds of changes would and wouldn't feel acceptable in that context?

>>303416
>Letting them run around hurting themselves when they could be comfortably sleeping on someone's rug and being petted is the real crime.

If they live as their nature demands, is it wrong? Scaling this up to sapient thinking creatures, is it not necessary for progress that we struggle and scrape and fuck up so that we learn? And maybe the affini are right and their way really is for the best, if that's true would all civilizations not inevitably be on the track to start thinking and acting like them? If they were truly right, conquest wouldn't be necessary, only an offer to join them. The way they act implies they're more afraid that they're wrong than assured that they are right.

Idk. I do think there is a space for like. Keeping stewardship over another creature that's not able to communicate as a human does so that they flourish without like. repeating all the flaws with our current framework of pets. I think there's a possibility for positive interactions in that space, though maybe the name of "pet" skews things a little too far away from that

>>303642
personally, I wouldn’t breed pet races in the first place.

If I were a pet dog or cat, I’d definitely want to die. If I learned I was akin to a fish in an aquarium, I’d kill myself.

And yeah, I’d want to be uplifted.

But dogs and cats aren’t capable of thinking like us. They aren’t capable of wanting to be uplifted; there isn’t much to uplift beyond base instincts.

It’s still wrong to keep them as pets like that, though. It’s still wrong to have sex with them. And, if they were capable of communicating their wants, it would be wrong to act in contradiction of them, even if they weren’t what was best for them.

HDG on my board? more likely than you'd think

>>303786
If you've spent enough time around other non-human creatures, there's definitely more than just "base instincts" - they do have consistent preferences, fears, a desire for comfort, and to certain extents they can communicate with their body language or behavior, like with fear by retreating to a safe location, or exuberance/excitement by a cheerful approach. I think there's a lot to learn about creature cognition in the space between like. idk bivalve shellfish which at present don't seem very responsive up to like. big moving land creatures we can observe and interact with, and presuming that it's impossible to uplift them seems kind of absurd to me on its face - bringing a creature that's not yet lucid to the point of lucidity is the very premise of the notion of uplifting, after all.

>>303439
1. Human reproduction doesn't include other species, affini reproduction does.
2. Wolves and such aren't noble savages living happily away from civilization with no problems. Wild animals do suffer, and I'm surprised there aren't more stories about ecosystems being shaped to affini sensibilities.
3. Do you actually believe having pets is unethical or are you just saying that?

>>303711
>'Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short'
Hobbes described humanity living according to its nature that way. When it domesticated itself things got a little better, but that nature remained. Destroying large areas of a planet's biosphere in order to amass a few more tokens is very human. Why should they sit around waiting for species to drive themselves to extinction "experimenting" (doing the same thing and killing each other for wanting to try something else) when a few affini ships could put a stop to the savagery and bring everyone some happiness? Why should the desire to rot in a ship that could explode at any moment eating reprocessed chemical waste be regarded as anything but delusion?

>>303642
I guess like. If we were uplifting other creatures, we'd probably need to transfer certain structures from human cognition to that of the creature, since they might not have those structures yet - and as a parallel, perhaps the affini have certain cognitive structures they have that humans don't, that they'd transfer - would this be considered acceptable or an unjust imposition?

This already has more replies than the actual political threads, jfc

>>304222
>Honestly a huge part of why these arguments fall flat is because you're talking in terms of human ethics. We, as a group, have defined "right and wrong" in such ways. Why, at all, should our morals apply to a totally alien immortal precursor species based on plants?
a moral realist would expect moral reasoning across widely disparate types of agent to converge, for the same reason that mathematical reasoning does: no matter how different the agents are they're ultimately running approximations to the same process
if this doesn't happen the only way we can interact with aliens is total genocidal war (or getting so absurdly lucky that our values happen to coincide almost completely)

>>304998
>if we dont agree on morals we have to go full exterminatus
based

>>304222
for how the affini "actually" act, yeah, whether "we" think it's good or bad is irrelevant, yes - they have a plan in mind for the humans and they seek to set it into motion, one way or another, and by the power of the author the affini have no meaningful opposition in enacting it. my own philosophical ramblings are more like. using the behavior of the characters in these settings as thought experiments to reflect on how we interact with other creatures

I just noticed we have 10 lurkers/posters
Isn't that what we had before?

hmm?

>>304222
After skimming the thread I've just become convinced that at least 50% of dystopian fiction really does derive from We, whether intentionally or not.

what the fuck is liveposting

liveposting is when your words show up to everyone as you type them, like on https://brainworm.surgery/ (which redirects to https://libpol.org/lgbt, but i like the former link more)

>>304201
What they do is still wrong. They domesticate even entirely functional and outright utopian societies, it's in the axioms. They see everyone and everything else as inherently lesser and act accordingly. It's a gilded cage, but a cage none the less and it is outright genocidal.
>>305917
Non-live is better, lets posts be thought through more.

>>305953
christ that sounds horrible tbh

>>305917
please no live

>>305955
>They see everyone and everything else as inherently lesser and act accordingly
Thats because they are, petal.

>>305955
>and it is outright genocidal.
It also isnt
what in gods cock are you talking about, they dont kill anyone
species have a HIGER chance of survival domesticated than not

>>306055
Actually wait a minute, if the affini don't believe in total equality doesn't that make them not communist? If they believe they're superior to everyone else doesn't that make them nationalist? A constantly expanding, imperialistic, extremely racist, socialistic superstate, now that reminds me of...

Oh no, I they accidentally wrote the affini to be *National Socialists*

>>306075
It isn't just about living, it's about how they live. They have no real right to self-determination, any problematic rough edges in their culture are sanded down and being against any of this is liable to get you dragged into the rape van and drugged out of your mind. Just because the re-education camp is nice doesn't mean it's not a re-education camp.

>>306204
Ive always thought it was realy realy stupid that the offical setting claims that their government is "what most terran historians would call anarcho-communist communes."
Post-scarcity makes traditional economic designations retarded in the first place imo, but they're definitely comunitst. They despise markets and currency, and anything even remotely resembling wealth accumulation. Also evrythings free for evryone. Nationalism is not a disqualifier for being comunist, ones economy and the other is cultual.
>inb4 some no true scotsman

Changing how a people live is not genocide, man. Not even "Cultural Genocide", that implies they're trying to destroy/replace terran culture wholesale. And they're also not doing that either. Making violent capitalists be not violent or capitalist anymore is a good thing.

>>306204
The Affini were never communists, its a misconception I think a lot of the writers had. Especially the one about the anarchist planet, of which I thought the writer would get right. Called No Gods No Masters I think That one was the most depressing thing I have ever read btw. Legitimately could not read on after a certain point and had to skip to the end, and then it was even worse than I thought it could have been.

it's really funny that this is the busiest thread on the board

>>306414
https://humandomestication.guide/canon-guidelines

idk maybe its fragmented

>>306419
huh
yea it does says that there

Thats... kinda retarded.
Like, the point being made there is they VALUE non-affini sophonts above themselves - that much is true, any plampt would happily take a nuke to the face for any random indie or likely even feralist

But like, they clearly ARE superior, and they know they are, and act acordingly - they say they know better, BECAUSE THEY DO.
thats like, the whole point.

>>306401
yea idk i find the reddit ui very obnoxious and i prefer a general level of anonymity. i have a couple altchans that cover most of my imageboard interests but i haven't found anything particularly adequate for what i got out of /lgbt/

>>306402
>>306414
>The Affini will gaslight you, drug you, mind-control you, violate your boundaries, ignore your consent [...]
>While this means a floret can get a lot of mileage out of pleading in an adorable manner, it doesn’t mean that the affini will do literally anything a floret asks of them. Sometimes pets don’t know what’s good for them, after all.

This setting is rapepilled

>>305955
I typed several paragraphs but a very suspicious "connection error" deleted them.
The affini believe everyone is better off under their care. Unfortunately that cuts into corporate profits and as you said is trilionaire genocide.

>>306427
I've been happier ignoring the wiki since I started reading real stories.

>>306523
hmm yea, you know what that makes sense. I think you're right.
I was using and understanding superior/inferior in terms of general capability (strength, smarts, wisdom, ect)
*value* wise, their whole society is built around making sophonts happy, and bending over backwards to make them happy (by any means neccary)

>>306536
*snap* yes!

>>306556
Yea, just ignoring the wiki is fair enough tbh. I still like to check it now and then as a guideline or to check what class Ws were again and such. But it does seem to be just kinda *bad*. And it reads like a hugely biased narrator.

>>306556
>I've been happier ignoring the wiki since I started reading real stories
Honestly the best approach.

using the rules of the guidebook *too* seriously is like. painting by numbers, idk, yeah

do any of yall smoke weed

>>307075
I smoke weeds all day!
FREE TERRA!

I'm writing a fanfiction in the setting, I think most fans will hate it though. If you are a liberal you will probably not like it. Please tell me your thoughts.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/63403183/chapters/162445723

>>307457
yes it's fine

I would read any fics if they got rid of the kink/sex part

>>308618
theres plenty of asexul hdg fics! But no kink in the kink setting is gonna be hard dawg

>>308676
yeah i was afraid so. i kind of like the concept of aliens enslaving and brainwashing humans as a plot device but i just don't care for it as a fetish. maybe warhammer has something like that but i never looked too much into warhammer.

>>308699
WH most definitely does have that in various forms
look at the TAU for instance

but yea, sorry haha. *Most* Stories actualy arent explicitly sexual, but theres always gonna be some kink stuff, at the verry least petplay and submission and such...

A good non-sexual one is An Affini and Her Nerd. Fun little series of vignettes about somebody who gets an owner to be able to focus on their academic research while having somebody to remind them of the little things like eating and sleeping.

>>307457
I'm pretty sure you can write whatever nsfw text you want. It's your own creative content and not anyone else so

>>310959
owowowowow
i love hdg but god it is very prone to fandom-ness

>>311840
cute robutt
finish it!!

>>310959
lmao
vietnam flashbacks to sports class
ahahaha

terra will never fall!

https://pastebin.com/10zQKBUf

>>316857
now im imagining a bunch of florets organizing counter-protests to feralist protests or whatever
with signs like
"Free terra? No thanks"
"I for one approve of our new plant overlords"
"flort all ferals"

>>317204
this is rlly good. i like your beeper they're cute

>>311840
omg... if you are who i think you are, please come back when you get better, we miss you...

>>308699
HDG always read more as a horror setting to me than a kink one. Reading these stories of people’s agency being stripped by something with values alien to our own fills me with dread. it’s funny people get off on it, but i can see why they find it hot if they are a turbosub

>>318304
> stories of people’s agency being stripped by something with values alien to our own
Thats hot as fuck thoughy

But, it IS definitely horror-y! What i enjoy about personaly is the knifes-edge balance of horror and existential dread... with fluffy comfy subspacey ness. Evry time you're luled into going "man this is kinda nice actualy, i could go for this..." there's something comming around the corner that makes you go "Wait wtf thats not wholesome at all :O"

>>318344 it doesn’t knock you out of subspace? or does the more fucked up thing add to it? if i am submitting and things go too far i want out of there, but i know that is just my own experience lol

>>318304
well yeah your freedom and agency is stripped down to next to nothing by an orange-blue morality that considers free will a laughable consideration for moral guidance, but you get lots and lots of pets!! and you can call the alien mommya and she wont even get mad and youget lots of treats and hugs and you're always safe and mommyy loves, you and

>>318422
Hmm, yes but no? Its hard to say in words properly.
It definitely tends to be a 180 in tone, sometimes. But like, i need my ass kicked first before i can comforted you know?
I have a morbid (kinky) fascination with stuff that makes me vaguely uncomfy, espechaly when it then turns around and gets all happy and fluffy on you.
Thats to say like, yea, it does fuck me up - when i was new to the setting i needed to take actual brakes between chapters to calm down. But i kinda like that?
Like, i can read a few thousand words of oneshot where its just happy and fluffy, but if its supposed to capture my fascination for more than half an hour, i need a gut punch now and then. Or atleast some vague background vibes.

>>318344
EXACTLY. It's an incredible tension between comfort and horror, you could have wonders but you'll lose everything else.

>>318520 tbh i would be interested in reading one of those tonal whiplash stories, which one is your favorite? I have not read a whole lot, i think the only one i read was some pilot who got captured and kept fighting, and ended up drugged and force femmed. i don’t remember the title tho it was like a year ago

>>318727
my memorys shite at remembering exact names of stories, espechaly the ones i burn through in a day instead of sevral.
sowwy.
Have you read abscision? I think thats a decentish example.
One minute you're reading about a waking-open-surgery torture scene, the next you're reading about "haha going out on the town with mistress friends and they're drunk and silly :)"

>>319006 it was probably the og one

>>318763 i have not, thanks for the recommendation!

>>308142
i have not written anything in HDG, so take this with a grain of salt. but if i wrote something designed to make you feel powerless and it was so effective that you wrote your own story to experience the catharsis of retaking that power, i would be flattered. but that is purely hypothetical.

>>319262
Agreed! Ms. Implant isnt scary... those indies and ferals are so silly! I love ms implant, and ms implant loves me too! Yaaayy!

>>319450
hmm, maybe.
It is! It IS verry sad!
they dont even HAVE owners, and they think that its better that way.
Makes me wanna cry and give them a big hug untill all the wrong ideas leave their heads, so they can finaly be happy and good. Evryone should get to feel how great it is...

I read the Floret Safe version of Count of Monte Cristo out of curiosity and now I want to vomit and also hunt down the perpetrator of this travesty and give them a stern correction about a whole list of offenses. I have pages of notes.

>>319558
Probabbly comfort them. Wether by giving them some nice Es, or with words, who's to say

>>317755
I'm probably not whoever you think I am, but being mistaken for someone who's missed is... a unique sensation.

>>278435

Hey, everyone! What do you think of this hdg fic?

https://archiveofourown.org/works/53659024/chapters/135833893

>>319462
Do you ever think some beings might just be better off free?

ffs do the plants even teach florets empathy? It should be obvious that not everyone perceives the world the same way, but what do I care, it's not like florets are worth talking to anyways. I'm surprised every time one can form a sentence without guidance, wretched bloody addicts.

>>321737
I appreciate what the author was attempting, but it didn't hit quite hard enough to be sarcasm and he goes into detail in the comments that he more or less supports the anti affini society he describes. I think the idea could have been better executed.

>>321783
Do heterosexual children learn empathy? Have you ever wondered why when you claim to be an atheist christians will assume you hate a god you just said you don't believe in?

Do you ever walk into a room and find out you're way smarter than anyone else there and feel miserable all the time you're expected to explain basic concepts very slowly so they can understand?
That's how affini feel around independents. Luckily they're not obliged to treat the cute sillies as equals and can simply pat them on the head and go about their day.

>>321783
no? why would i think such depressing things?
Mistress says some sophonts dont *need* an owner, but its still sad that they think they're better off that way. So many feral ideas about freedom still in their heads...
Of course evryone percives the world diffrently, silly! Thats the tragic part, how wrong these oerceptions can be... i dont remember the time before i met my owner too well, but i was the same once you know? All kinds of caustic feral ideas stuck in my head... but now i know better! The pure bliss of finding your true place in the world is something that is verry hard to describe to those that cant relate... but i know that evryone should get to feel this good! Its tragic some sophonts have to ĺive drab lives without thus joy in their day! If thats not empathy i dobt know what is..

say you had the opportunity to send a distress signal to the affini. would you throw the rest of humanity under the bus for a chance at domestication? i think i probably would. at the end of the day everyone would genuinely be better off, which combined with me selfishly wanting it outweighs any moral qualms

>>324250
yea, i think i probabbly would t b h.
ive drank enough of the coolaid to belive its genuinely for the best. My friends would finaly not need to suffer anymore...
i would probabbly need to get wasted to get over myself and actualy press the button though, i do have a love for freedom and plenty of moral objections to wrassle with.

like, i have the meta knowledge to know its gonna be better, right? So i'd be tempted to do it. I yearn.
But without the 'meta knowledge' id probabbly end up fanaticaly ferral

I think there are other alien overlords I'd press the button for first.

>>324291
like who?

>>324250
I wouldn't hesitate. Maybe it would be selfish, but there are plenty of terrible humans who need to be blasted with xenodrugs until they cut it out and I wouldn't mind a cure for some of my worse issues.

>>324296
I'm more into transhuman uplifting. Trade this beat up chassis for something more durable and reliable. I'd go with the Machina from Omega-Processor's Machina Hazard universe. I recently found some fan stories on Literotica.

>>324482
i dont know that setting, so i cant comment on how they compare. Maybe i'll have to read up on it.
But you know getting a sleek new robot body to replace your old body is an option with the affini too, right?

>>311840
>Rampantly prideful and egotistical
>Give no fucks about things like "boundaries" and "consent"
>Can make whatever they want whenever they want
>Total mastery over drugs and bioengineering
>Always seeking more territory and more species to take into the fold
>Immortal lifespans put them at risk of infinitely increasing ennui

Slaanesh would love the affini like no others, a big problem considering Slaanesh is the absolute last thing you want to be "loved" by.

>>324524
True, but it's still not quite "uplifting". I'd rather be an equal part of whatever society results.

>>326517
Well, if you think about it, they're uplifting you from a scared feral into a cute pet :)

>>326895
yay uppies!

I guess everyone got bored of hdg when 4chan shut down...

>>329542
the community is just split, there's a lot of people on 8chan

>>329542
nah i dont think so
we're a small thread in the first place, and a few people might have gone missing in the exodus
but i doubt people suddenly dont want to be collard by plommy anymore

i do hope we can go back home soon though...

>>330031
>>329542
Also: Theres less pressing need to bump now that we're not falling of the board for going 5 hours with no posts
i did ALOT of crypto-bumps back on 4chan when we got to page 8/9, where i tried to make it a normal post with some begging or cock knows what, but realy it was just a bump and i wouldna posted that if we werent falling of the board

>>330031
poor stray terrans, left all alone... i hope someone comes back and collars them all...

>log on to finni over net
>bitch about finni
seed behavior tbh

plant taking your first time (unwillingly) while you whimper and tremble in its arms, treating you so so gently, cooing over you and telling you what a good job you're doing while you cry

>>331345
the internet is free terran soil, weeds OUT

>>331628
And of course nobody is tracking connections to terra, right? "But I'm obfuscating my signal!" That just makes finding you more fun for them.

>>331769
I'm in a private window so pretty sure it's fine

>>331893
Aren't those the cuddle piles where you keep getting everyone domesticated?

>>331893
I hope you rest easy knowing the only reason you aren't wearing a collar is that the plants appreciate number of independents you trick into florethood with so-called 'free' affection.

>>331559
ohmyFUCKINGgod

>>332186
>mostly

>>332231
it is if you know they're probably going to be domesticated
it's entrapment

>>332361
sounds to me like you're deliberately providing a space for people to get domesticated
I hope they get you next

>>332367
Don't worry, the day she's too tired or busy to keep up the cuddle piles, she'll have an affini ready to ensure she never feels too much stress to cuddle ever again.

>>332396
>Affini like domesticating people who go to cuddle puddles
>does not make it my fault for hosting cuddle puddles.
"Its not my fault that guy got arrested on drug charges, i just sold them to him"

>>333532
Entrapment is goading or tricking a person who'd normally never break some certain law into breaking that law (see: the inciting incident of the Ruby Ridge disaster). You're still right, but for the wrong reason.

>>331816
Damn, he's in incognito mode, we'll never get him.

i want to have the absolute shit scared out of me so that i may experience the "Fawn" part of "Fight, Flight, Freeze or Fawn"

Um hi
My owner doesn't like me talking on the internet but she's out and I don't want to make her sad but I'm really really really confused so can someone help me? Please?
Mommy says I used to be extra naughty before I met her. i don't remember much of it but I don't think she'd lie. I try to be good! But I mess up a lot and I feel really bad about that. Mommy makes me wear a shock collar and zaps me when I'm bad. She says it's to discipline me but it hurts! And sometimes I don't know what I did wrong. But then other times mommy says I'm adorable and pets me lots and gives me treats. Then sometimes she just ties me up and shocks me without saying anything and makes her scary face
Am I bad for being confused?

>>336352
Is confusion a bad thing?

>>336352
Post contract

>>336352
Are you sure you dont enjoy it on some level? Absolutely sure? Asked the compiler for class-Ds and searched your feelings sure you dont enjoy it a little bit?
If the answer to all of the above is yes, then you should try to contact your local BXWC, you have a right to wellness and if being shocked is making you fell bad (and you *dont* enjoy it on some level) then thats a violation.

>>336396
Being confused makes me sad

>>336435
It's too high up and all the chairs are really heavy...

>>336442
Mommy says I need help learning to be good and I don't want to make her sad :(

>>336589
>It's too high up and all the chairs are really heavy...
Alright then, what specifically did you do before meeting your mommy and what were you like? Even if it's hard to remember you gotta do it for me, a good floret would. You can do it.

>>336589
Sweaty, maybe this is to high-concept for your cute little flortbrain, but if she wanted you to be good, she could fix any problems in your behaviour trivialy. Some hypnotics and a good seshion would sort it out in 10 minutes. Actualy scratch that, if you're properly implanted and conditioned to your implant, she could just *make sure* your feel and think the way you ought to.
Ergo, shes doing it the slow and manual way because *she enjoys it*. And thats A-OK, if you enjoy it also. But if you *genuinely dont*, then thats not okay and she shouldnt be doing it.
But, our glorious overlords do often know better than we do... which is why i suggest taking some class Ds for self-reflection, if you havent already - we can oh so easily delude ourselfs into thinking we dislike something when we secretly enjoy it and just feel ashamed for it.

>>336352
youre not bad at all ! just trust your mommy and try your best she'll take care of u :>

>>336274
yeah I really really want this
its kind of happened before but not for a long time, and not in a good way

>>337173
Spying? All of Terra's planet net is now Affini hardware. How can they spy on their own network?

>>337194
is it really affini hardware? terrans invented the internet perfectly fine ourselves, we don't need weeds to do it

>>337210
Yep. Every satellite replaced with smaller units that have a far greater bandwidth and are self-maintaining.

>>337276
ok but we still invented internet and satellites andd stuff, that has to count for something

>>337315
You dont think inventing computers and then going like "hurr what if we run wires between them to send messages?" is a special achivement, now do you? It isnt.

>>337103
ooh? Do you wanna tell us about that, anon? As much as i think it'd be realy great to have the experience... kayfabe off i kinda didnt think that was real.

>>337498
I mean the way we can send data through wires or even just through the air is a pretty crazy achievement, it took thousands of terran scientists many years just to come up with a system that worked to send data between a couple different computers. It's actually an incredibly complex system built on decades of work, so what if the weeds have better wifi? they had like billions of years of a head start anyway

>>337625
the weeds being better at it is, infact, not impressive. They have eons of a headstart.
Not my point. Most species that dont get wiped out by a disaster will figure this shit out sooner or later, in one way or another.

>>337505
getting beat up by a bigger kid and begging them to stop is definitely real
it would be really fun I think to do in roleplay, but its not that fun when it's real

>>337671
Hmm, i dont think that realy qualifies as "fawning" anon, sorry.

>>337662
hmm do the rinans have good internet? I bet terran internet was way better

>>337704
im willing to bet the rinian internet was significantly more usuable thanks to being less corporate and comercialized
although, i can imagine with the haphhazard nature of their tech in general, there'd be more downtimes and jankier UIs

>>337683
I mean that's basically the appeasement response, which isn't fight, flight, or freeze

>>337759
i cant find the exact qoute im looking for
but the idea was more like, that you get so impressed and scared that it loops all the way around to LOVING IT
like, seeing just how outclassed you are and instinctualy going "PLEASE TAKE ME NOW SUPREME BEING!"

>>337884
Plants!

>>337871
I'm not sure that sort of thing actually happens irl

>>338042
thats what i said originaly anon...
shame though! real shame

>>336625
>>336644
I apologize for my adorable little one's outburst, petals. I have been obliged to discipline her because she has a tendency to seek out new playmates. While in most florets this would be a wonderful sign of adjustment and docility, my pet kidnaps independents to implant them in order to make them "ours." That entails cutting open their necks and "implanting" clippings of my leaves. I am aware that this is a problem and have prevented her from succeeding thusfar.
She does want to be good, but her intentions are very misguided. I don't suppose any of you would be willing to join our family and let my blossom bring you closer than you could presently imagine (with careful supervision)?

>>338080
No thats fine miss, thank you though.
I do have to question your choice or methods though, espechaly withsomething that serious. Why not just place some mental blocks? I dont claim to understand even a thrid of how your peoples biotech works, but from the pamphlets and papers i've read it should be possible for someone with expertize to just program the implant in such a way that it stops such psycosis dead in its tracks. You guys use that stuff all the time, for trival powerplay things like stoping swearing. So surely you're aware of the possibility? Why dont you, then?
Dont get me wrong man, im not exactly an advocate *for* mindcontrol... but you might aswell if the manual training is causing them discomfort.

>>338280
defamation of a floret... just because she wants to make friends. sickening. guards!! domesticate this woman

>>338644
interesting. backtalk. another hundred years of domestication for you

>>338080
Stop shocking her you idiot you're clearly frying her neurons

>>338141
Unfortunately, that would conflict with the message that implantation is good and that florets are happy. Sometimes blossoms need correction. That aside, I know that once I started I would simply rewrite her entirely to my preferences, not her best self but the self I would find most pleasing. A plant nearby fell into that trap and it wasn't for the best, adorable as the results might be.

>>338280
They say petal that when one stops seeking an owner that one is most likely to appear. For example, in response to exclusionary cuddle pile practices. I've heard you go out of your way to associate with feralists without any affini present. Is that correct?

>>340162
She makes adorable noises every time and it's only a light zap to get her attention. As I mentioned, she can be a bit dramatic at times. Worry not little one, I will have her fully trained shortly. I'm glad you didn't see how she was before I made so much progress.